Re: hcaptcha, is A curiosity about multi-user systems?

[Karen Lewellen <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

And I forgot to ask.
how do you know that the console market is small?
In  my first post I noted that webaim's survey excluded Linux users.
I wonder how small the market would be if a survey included the question,
If  you could access the Internet using  any browser, what would you 
choose?
allowing those who may desire or prefer a console a way to voice what they 
would  choose if they could.
Karen



On Fri, 5 Mar 2021, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> yet, would that be your choice if you physically could not use those tools?
> Which is largely my point.  The idea behind a11y, and which was behind w3c 
> until recently,  is that everyone deserves access to the web, regardless of 
> what their body requires.
> Add in that for many populations  experiencing disabilities, the economic 
> foundation to afford several upgrades and the like is nonexistent.
> The Rehab system in the states for example has largely failed if there 
> remains an unemployment rate in the80% range.
> I respect that you have your set of tools that work for you.  Does not that 
> right extend to everyone?
> rights are not about percentages, how small of a market and the like.
> After all the right to vote  exists for the single person.
> why should that not extend to accessing services, services impacted by 
> extensive noninclusive captchas?
> Please explain why your choices are to be accommodated more than another 
> persons?
> I respect that may not be your meaning, but when you say that a market is too 
> small, you feed the idea that only some deserve a way through the door.
>  Karen
>
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021, Janina Sajka wrote:
>
> >  Hi, Karen:
> >
> >  I wouldn't expect support for console browsers. It's just far too small
> >  a userbase anymore, with far too little interest among developers.
> >
> >  Personally, I still use lynx where I can. But I'd be lost on the web
> >  without Firefox, Chromium, Safari, etc.
> >
> >  Best,
> >
> >  Janina
> >
> >  Karen Lewellen writes:
> > >  Hi janina,
> > >  Speaking personally, I  quite respect this document.
> > >  Still, I am very concerned by the modern solutions stance.
> > >  can you  articulate how those modern solutions work in the more console
> > >  rooted environment of Linux?
> > >  Likewise, and again a personal stance, the gap between this kind of 
> > >  research
> > >  and the need to obtain a solution to a captcha related barrier, or, as 
> > >  is
> > >  the case here,  a barrier to a captcha solution can be rather large.
> > >  best advice for how to address what hcaptcha is doing specifically?
> > >  Thanks,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  On Wed, 3 Mar 2021, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > 
> > > >  Two comments about CAPTCHA taken from the 2019 W3C Technical Note on
> > > >  CAPTCHA inaccessibility:
> > > > 
> > > >  http://www.w3.org/TR/turingtest
> > > > 
> > > >  1.)	It's not just blind people who require consideration, eg. 
> > > >  there
> > > >  are people with other disabilities that are likely to encounter 
> > > >  barriers
> > > >  whatever the CAPTCHA approach.
> > > > 
> > > >  2.)	CAPTCHA must, and can be eliminated with more modern 
> > > >  strategies.
> > > >  These are also explored in our doc.
> > > > 
> > > >  Best,
> > > > 
> > > >  Janina
> > > > 
> > > >  Glenn K0LNY writes:
> > > > >  I don't even know why they offer visual and audio captchas, when I 
> > > > >  have come
> > > > >  across sites that just ask a basic question like:
> > > > >  what is five plus seven?
> > > > >  Apparently this keeps out computer hacks too.
> > > > >  Glenn
> > > > > 
> > > > >  ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >  From: "Karen Lewellen" <klewellen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >  To: "Jookia" <contact@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >  Cc: "Janina Sajka" <janina@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <speakup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >  Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 8:04 PM
> > > > >  Subject: Re: hcaptcha, is A curiosity about multi-user systems?
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >  Granted the issues captchas pose are extensive for several 
> > > > >  populations.
> > > > >  still, your idea of changing the user agent, no matter how 
> > > > >  reasonable,
> > > > >  seems to  sort of make you a hacker.  All the while this service 
> > > > >  continues
> > > > >  to misrepresent what access means, and if their twitter 
> > > > >  conversations on
> > > > >  the topic are any indication, limit access to a very small box.
> > > > >  there must be a more direct solution to this situation?
> > > > >  Kare
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >  On Mon, 1 Mar 2021, Jookia wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > >  When hCaptcha first came out I went on CloudFlare's site and 
> > > > > >  ranted
> > > > > >  about how bad the accessibility was for screen readers. They 
> > > > > >  seemed to
> > > > > >  have fixed it a bit since then, but I don't think they really test 
> > > > > >  or
> > > > > >  put much effort in to it.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  Ultimately CAPTCHAs exclude anyone that is worse off than an AI. I 
> > > > > >  hate
> > > > > >  it.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  You could try setting your browser agent to some Windows thing, 
> > > > > >  that
> > > > > >  might help.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  Jookia.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >  --
> > > > 
> > > >  Janina Sajka
> > > >  https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> > > > 
> > > >  Linux Foundation Fellow
> > > >  Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> > > > 
> > > >  The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative 
> > > >  (WAI)
> > > >  Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures 
> > > >  http://www.w3.org/wai/apa
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> >
> >  -- 
> >
> >  Janina Sajka
> >  https://linkedin.com/in/jsajka
> >
> >  Linux Foundation Fellow
> >  Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org
> >
> >  The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
> >  Co-Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures	http://www.w3.org/wai/apa