Paul Hoffman wrote: > On 31 Jul 2017, at 14:06, Ted Lemon wrote: >> The reason we are advocating this is not that we want you to debug >> the user interface. It's that we think it works. > There's that "we" again. I'd like to hear from others in the > operational community who agree with you, given that what I have heard > from that community is that it "almost" works for technical users and > "might not work" for typical users. i'm an operator who is fairly new to this ipv6 stuff; we only deployed it commercially across our backbone (and through the cpe) in 1997. in our meager experience, pure ipv6 with no hack to get to the ipv4 internet is not viable from the user perspective, period. it won't be for many years. yes, this is a tragic failure; and we know where the root causes lie. nat64/dns64 is useful in constrained circumstances. the ietf meeting network is not one of them; as there is far too wide a variety of users, some with laptops they can't even control due to IT departments, many use vpns, applications are still incompatible, ... this is yet another tragedy. the biggest obstacle to improvement on both these fronts is the denial that there are serious problems, and hence far too little serious work being done to ameliorate them. but, no matter how hard we work, there is not going to be a magic day when it all just works. ipv6 is on-the-wire incompatible with ipv4; so it is gonna be hacks; and hacks are tecnhnical debt. randy