On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Tom Hughes <tom@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 18/07/17 14:55, Richard Hughes wrote: >> >> On 18 July 2017 at 14:52, Tom Hughes <tom@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> So what is the user experience of "updating" in this world? How does the >>> transition from one snapshot to the next occur? >> >> >> Basically the same as now. Kalev added a gnome-software plugin that >> downloads the new data, shows the OS update in gnome-software updates >> panel and then you reboot, and it applies the update atomically. You >> reboot, and you're in the new OS. > > > Any answer that ends in "then you reboot" has instantly failed ;-) > > I know you want us to reboot on every update but in the real world nobody is > doing that because it's insane. Be careful what you ask for. I am a purveyor in ad hominem attacks once it is obvious a discussion is no longer about technical arguments, but about the foolish, ignorant, and stubborn bag of mostly water. And that's because this has been explained on a technical level many times, why and when the reboot is necessary. As a kind courtesy refresher course for those with short term memories: If the real world is just Fedora, the vast majority of Workstation users update with Gnome Software, and these are offline updates which require *two* reboots. If it's all of Linux, most people are likewise doing reboots on updates. And if you go with, you know, the actual real world where it's 95% Windows and macOS, that's now 100% of users are doing one or two reboots on an OS update. What happens on Fedora now, because applications are merged with the OS, there are application updates that end up making some unnecessary reboots compulsory. But with atomic + flatpak installations, there is much better separation of when reboots are necessary. OS updates don't need to happen as often, and only one reboot is needed, there no longer a long monolithic offline update process during which time the system can't be used. Applications can be separately updated, you don't have to reboot and I'm pretty sure you don't even have to quit the application during the update. Just quit and relaunch whenever, and now you're using the new version. This is way better than what anyone else on any platform is doing, including even macOS where thus far they don't have OS update rollbacks (but they do have separate OS and application updates where application updates don't require reboots). > If you really want us to do that then the thing to spend your time on is > ways to preserve desktop state across reboots. And yes I know that is > really, really hard which is why every attempt to do so has always been > abandoned. Nobody wants to have to resetup their desktop every day though > which is why we all just run dnf update and cope with the rare occasions > when an app crashes and we have to restart it. I think it's a completely legitimate gripe that there's neither desktop nor application state saving. Whether it's day to day work, or recovering from a DE crash (rare, but more common than needing a rollback from an OS upgrade), and effectively the lack of hibernation support, this is definitely a weak area: every platform does this better, iOS, Android, Windows, macOS. And then on Linux, at least SUSE and Ubuntu explicitly support hibernation although I have no idea to what degree they go bug hunting. Fedora definitely does not support it (meaning it's not configured out of the box, and if it doesn't work it's not a release blocking bug). -- Chris Murphy _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
