On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Can we please stick to the technical issues here? That is, how we should > implement systemd to make the transition from upstart/sysv as painless > as possible, and perhaps some semantic improvements to the parameters > and command names Lennart has chosen for systemd. These really don't > need to be emotive issues. Mailings lists are really are good at twisting personality quirks into weird conflicts. Its always amazing to me how differently I react to some people when I'm in person with them versus talking to them on a mailing list or email about the same issue...especially when there is some conflict...doubly so when the other person isn't a native English speaker. It's really easy to read malice and intention to offend into statements in this medium. I have a sneaky suspicion that statistically, the amount of time you interact with a person face-to-face greatly impacts the tone of conflict resolution is handled in mediums when aggregated across the interactions of many many people. Not that knowing that helps any of us be better at avoiding it from happening to us. I'd wager that if we were having this discussion in a room with the very same people, I think the emotional reactions over the areas of conflict would be much reduced and personality quirk mismatches wouldn't cause so much static. We also seem to get into this sort of cycle when parties have inverted priority lists. They may actually care about the very same things.. but the priority values don't match up. When priorities are inverted its actually more heated than when one party doesn't care at all about something that the other party cares about. Areas of compromise come in the middle ground of a priority list...so when things are inverted.. its harder to get to that compromise even though we actually all _care_, In this case, we know that systemd developers care about backwards compatibility to some degree. It does work with traditional sysinit files out of the box. In fact is clearly a pretty high priority to them..they didn't break the world. We have a workable fallback position from native systemd unit files because of that. One of the questions _we_ as a distribution should consider is how do we expose that fallback position to sysadmins. How easy do _we_ make it for local sysadmins to transition their heterogeneous management infrastructure to support transitioning to system native files..or if need be falling back to legacy sysinit style files to better integrate F14 into their environments. Personally, speaking as a person _and_ a sysadmin, it would be worthwhile to have a big freakin button somewhere that allowed me to disable all native systemd config files and let me run sysinit style files when the situation demands... ie crap like puppeted configurations. It doesn't have to be the default but something that lets me get Fedora 14 into my existing local managed environment and start the transition process to native systemd on the timescale that makes sense in context of that local management infrastructure. -jef -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
