On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:31 AM, Alexander Bisogiannis <alexixor@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 28/07/16 00:13, Chris Murphy wrote: >> That's nonsense. You're basically saying leveraging hardware features >> is persona non grata, everyone should just accept mediocre power >> management, which is precisely what we already have in even the best >> case let alone the worst case, compared to smart phones. Of course >> this should be better, and of course it should involve the user far >> less than it does. > > > We are comparing smart phones to laptops now? > Why does a DE for desktops and laptops compare it self with a smart phone? Connected Standby / InstantGo is precisely making that comparison, is an attempt to get the benefits of mobile power management onto laptops. >> I don't understand this desire to manually futz with things, except >> that it suggests the automatic thing isn't working correctly, in which >> case it's a bug that should be fixed. But an option to manually do >> things just because, that's not convincing to me at all. There are all >> kinds of power managements events that are happening in firmware that >> you have no control over, and wouldn't want control over. >> >> > > I don't understand why functionality was removed before the new > functionality was ready. I don't follow what's been recently removed. If it's a comparison going back to the pleistocene, some way to separately control brightness on battery vs AC, I don't see that as a hill worth dying on. > You are arguing for something that is not possible yet in Linux, but you > have removed the previous UI nevertheless? No I'm arguing for things that exist in other distros, e.g. powertop (or tuned if that works better, I haven't used it), and hibernation being supported out of the box. I think it's great there's an effort to bring discrete/integrated GPU graphics switching into Fedora. For the hardware that defaults to the discrete GPU being on, that'll certainly improve battery life. > I am sorry but the real Linux desktop, the one that people pay real money > for, includes tweakUI, a poweroff button, screen brightness UI etc. *shrug* I'm not seeing a noteworthy deficiency in this area. The biggest related issue(s) I have is, automatic brightness (enabled by default and I can and have disabled it) has a couple edge cases where the built-in display is turned off like on log out, and goes to maximum brightness at other times, it's nearly the opposite of what I'd expect, and haven't been able to figure out what the pattern even is, so I've turned it off. However, even off, something is still sensing what action to take, and it's spamming the journal, since that's consistent I did file a bug about that. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1359481 > You might argue all day about non issues that become issues because of your > opinion, but the fact is that there is *no* way that a paying customer would > tolerate a system where they could not control the above. The only thing in your list I don't have, and don't miss, is tweakUI. So I suspect you're wrong that I wouldn't tolerate this in a payed for OS. I happen to use such OS's and I can assure you that people routinely pay for having LESS features (called clutter). More visible functionality is not inherently good, it can be bad, in fact it can make something completely mindnumbing and irritating as hell to use. > You will say of course that this is fedora not RHEL, but the fact is that > Gnome3 as shipped with RHEL has reversed every single one of the above > decisions. > > So next time, when *a lot* of people complain you should listen, else the > paying people will complain and then there will be problems. Well I think we're off the rails because so far there's one person complaining about the loss of separate brightness adjustment when on battery and when on power, compared to a reported much larger volume of users who didn't like the behavior. -- Chris Murphy -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
