On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 16:58, Thomas Dodd wrote: > > > > I can partly agree with the idea of not changing options to suit apps. > > But workflows are very important to me. Slowing my workflow means > > slowing my productivity. My problem is that you cannot possibly foresee > > how the future is going to be. By locking hardcoding shortcuts you > > effectively make some programs unuseable. Consider (I'm sure you have) > > that people work in applications, not WM's. If a good workflow in an > > application can be to use some shortcuts. If these shortcuts are eaten > > by the WM then you have to design around it and most likely end up with > > a workflow which is not optimal. > > Perhaps the app should have configurable shourtcuts? Why pick on the WM? > But seriously, I agree any shortcut, especially the WM ones, should be > configurable. I remember fvwm allowed me to set up just about anything. > 3 buttons + Ctrl, Alt, and Meta in any combinations could be set to do > the action I wanted. And the defined action changed depending on where > the mouse was. So over the root window was different that the title bar, > which was different than the edges and on and on and ... When I say configurable I don't mean adding a lot of features. Just being able to redefine the default ones, If there are additional shortcuts which can be enable, that fine with me, but that should "work out of the box" in most cases. My emphasis is mainly on the part that no shortcuts should be hardcoded. > > I'm talking about huge apps like Maya and its likes. > > Almost every key you can reach with your left hand has a shortcut which > > uses a combination of alt, ctrl, shift and mouse buttons. > > That a very unusual situation though. Most apps have a few shortcuts, > not enough though, and expect most work to be done with the mouse > and menus. If you cannot do it with a mouse+menu, it's considered a > bug today. I disagree, but that the current design trend. Maya can do most things in many ways, including menus access. It's just not a very good workflow. Hence the shortcuts. > > On a different note: > > > > Is there any particular reason why alt-f2 doesn't move me to workspace 2 > > anymore (as with sawfish). I think the multiple workspace dropped > > greatly in workability because of that. Now I have to move my hand from > > the pen to the keyboard to change workspaces. > > I can live with it, but I prefer it the other way where I could just do > > it with the hand already on the keyboard. > > O look, here's a unix thing he likes. I have sawfish and E configured > to use Alt+ F1-F8 to switch to different Workspaces/desktops. Imaging > the poor windows user that expect Alt+F4 to close the app. And didn't > Windows use Atl+F1 for something? Windows uses those for something different, but windows do not have workspaces (which is a great thing in linux). I just think that workspaces are much more useable when they are easily accessed. I don't consider ctrl+alt+right an easy access because I have to shift my right hand from the tablet to the keyboard. I don't expect linux/windows/mac/irix to work the same at all levels. Don't get me wrong on that. > > And doesn't Maya use Alt+F1-F4 for something? No, it doesn't. > >>Since UNIX has historically had no standards at all here, and does not > >>fully map to windows (e.g. we have shortcuts to deal with workspaces), > >>I consider it unavoidable that some apps will need to change in order > >>to fix things that I consider bugs. > > > > > > I entirely do not agree, as stated above. correction: that should have said "I do not entirely agree, a stated above" > > Some group like Xopen or GNOME+KDE needs to decide. > I favor > 1: Meta different than Alt in configurations. Most PCs have > that key with a flag on it (mine's a penguin:) that M$ wanted. > > 2: The WM gets conmbos with one. The apps get the other modifiers. > Say Meta for WM, and Ctrl, and ALt for apps. Sounds fair to me. > 3: When the pointer is over a window decoration, borde, titlebar, the > buttons in the corners, the WM gets all the modifiers. I most cases yes. But not an active key grab. If the mouse if over the border/titlebar/decoration and no button is pressed then its ok to grab the keys. Just a minor but important detail. > 4: When the pointer is inside the window, the app gets it's keys, > but the WM key (meta?) is still for the WM. True. -Rene
