"Stut" <stuttle@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:480DF7B8.1080302@xxxxxxxxxxxx > Tony Marston wrote: >> ""Jay Blanchard"" <jblanchard@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message >> news:9F6B7518E92167499E0168D01C2D8D9C4174E9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> [snip] >>> If you don't use a framework then obviously you are writing nothing but >>> mickey mouse programs, and wouldn't stand a chance when it comes to >>> writing a proper application. >>> ......If you think you can achieve the same >>> level of productivity WITHOUT a framework then you are living in cloud >>> \cuckoo land. >>> \[/snip] >>> >>> Tony is obviously joking here folks. >> >> No I'm not. > > Shocking and unexpected opinion from the developer of a framework. NOT! > > Anyway, I can see this falling into another lengthy discussion so I'll get > my contribution in early to avoid disappointment. > > As others have mentioned this question is plagued by semantic arguments. > To me a framework is as much about the way requests are routed and handled > as it is about utility code. > > I don't use what I would call a framework, but I do have a > well-established file layout for my sites and an extensive library of code > that covers everything I need to do regularly. This could be classed as a framework as it obviously provides the means to make use of all that code which has already been written and therefore does not (or should not) need to be written again and again. As well as providing a few low-level routines a fully fledged framework will also provide a series of high-level functions such as user authentication, role based access control, dynamic menus, audit logging and perhaps a workflow system. The real measure of a good framework is the length of time it takes to create a new database table, then write the components to maintain the contents of that table. I can do this in 5 minutes without having to write a single line of PHP, HTML or SQL. If you can't match this then you're not in the same league. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org > If I have an itch it doesn't scratch I'll write it in a reusable way. The > file layout and code library has definitely been put through it's paces > and is currently in use on a 1.4m+ UUpM (~18m PVpM) site and several > smaller properties so I know it works securely, reliably and it scales. > > I don't use third-party code libraries unless there's no other way of > doing it or time constraints are in play. Maybe it's due to past > experiences or maybe it's just the way I am, but I don't like using code > written by people I don't know and trust unless I can spend time picking > it apart, and generally I found it's quicker to start again. > > It's also worth noting the shocking quality of some open source projects. > It may work but do you know how secure and stable it is? > > I've been forced to use a couple of "frameworks" in the past and the main > thing that struck me is that they work far too hard in the name of being > able to satisfy a wide variety of needs. This not only over-complicates > the code but can also be a massive drain on runtime resources. I > understand why they're like this but it's yet another reason I stick to my > own collection. > > Anyways, back to work. > > -Stut > > -- > http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
