Thanks for the feedback - just a couple final comments from me.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Adam Roach <adam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 3/5/18 2:17 PM, Mary B wrote:
And, just to add to this, if we really are having or have had the problems that the other groups did, then we should be discussing that openly rather than hiding under the guise of people not wanting to be photographed and being intimidated by whomever (it wasn't really clear to me exactly what folks were worried about). So, this actually gets us back to basic IETF process - what problem are you trying to solve?
I don't think I'm saying anything new here, but previous iterations of it might have been lost in the shouting. I'll try to lay it out my understanding of the facts and rationale that drove this:
- The ISOC has a professional photographer who takes pictures at IETF meetings.
[MB] That was not clear from the outset and was a bit buried. There is another very busy photographer amongst the group and many thought it was the other photographer that was the issue. [/MB]
2. Following an incident in which an individual wanted control
over the use of an image taken by the hired photographer, it
became evident that we need some way for attendees to indicate
to the ISOC photographer that they don't want their picture
taken.
[MB] Per the hackothan thread, it wasn't entirely evident to everyone there in the same way it's not here. [/MB]
3. In order to be effective, all attendees need to know what the
indication is so they can choose whether to display it.
[MB] With our group, I can guarantee that if you did a survey halfway through the week, there would likely be well half the group that won't know this. And, I'd put money that a half of those wouldn't have even noticed whatever we choose as an indicator exists. How many people know what the smiley face on the badge means. [/MB]
4. If someone is wearing a clear indication that they don't want
to be photographed -- one that you are necessarily aware of due
to the above point -- and you, even as an amateur photographer,
do anyway, then you're an ass.
[MB] And, per my next comment, the latter is general IETF behavior that it's clear as a community we are not able to police.
5. Don't be an ass.
[MB] And this is were we go down the rathole because as came out in this thread, there are a lot of other situations whereby this noun applies. So, I think you'll be very luck if you achieve 4 about half the time. But, I'll happily wear a red lanyard and when someone's behaving that way, point out that I've asked them not to around me. Of course, this gets us back to the notion in terms of the fact that even with the lanyards or whatever, it's really only gonna work if a core group of us are providing that feedback to those folks whether or not we're the target since the whole premise was that there are people that feel too intimidated to do that themselves. [/MB]
That's kind of the core problem. I don't claim it's the only one, but it's my understanding of how we got where we are today.
/a
