Hiya, On 07/11/17 07:49, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote: > Hi Keith, > > ah, now I see where you are coming from. Yes, we are also discussing > whether ISOC should be closer to a neutral "convener" or, instead, > "advocate" more strongly in certain areas... and the ideal role may > depend on the particular area, actually. > > In summary, yes, we are thinking about it... and, FWIW, based on my > discussions many IETFers share your view. As an input there, (not that you'll be short of them:-),,, I hope that ISOC don't differentiate too much between government surveillance and corporate surveillance. While the latter may have some fig-leaf of so-called "consent" or clicked-EULA, it's the same information being gathered/centralised etc. (And of course the latter form of surveillance can nicely feed the former when companies are compelled.) I realise that commenting on corporate surveillance might be harder for ISOC and IETFers as we end up criticising basically ourselves/our-employers, but ISTM that logic and consistency call for doing just that. Cheers, S. > > Cheers, > > Gonzalo > > > On 07/11/2017 9:38 AM, Keith Moore wrote: >> Having "activities", and prominently taking a stand for what's right, are very different things. >> >> >> On Nov 7, 2017, at 2:30 AM, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote: >> >>> Hi Keith, >>> >>> yes, ISOC has activities on that front. For instance, a couple of weeks >>> ago ISOC organized the following Chatham House Roundtable on Encryption >>> and Lawful Access: >>> >>> https://www.chathamhouse.org/event/encryption-and-lawful-access >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Gonzalo >>> >>> On 07/11/2017 2:00 AM, Keith Moore wrote: >>>> Hi Gonzalo, >>>> >>>> Thanks your your reply. I understand that it's necessary to word things >>>> carefully, but I hope ISOC can find a way to specifically call out both >>>> mining of personal data (whether or not traceable to individual >>>> identities) and mass surveillance (whether or not by state-supported >>>> actors) as significant threats to the public welfare. >>>> >>>> Keith >>>> >>>> On 11/06/2017 05:34 AM, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote: >>>>> Hi Keith, >>>>> >>>>> thanks for your comments. >>>>> >>>>>> In the context of ISOC it's important to understand that the Internet >>>>>> can be used for good or ill, but it's in danger of becoming more of the >>>>>> latter. Promoting the Internet as if it were a universal good, while >>>>>> ignoring the various ways it can be used to exploit or harm its users, >>>>>> does not seem either responsible or consistent with ISOC's history. >>>>>> There are of course limits to what ISOC can do about it, but I don't >>>>>> think ISOC should be silent and/or pretend that it's not a problem. >>>>> I agree with you. In fact, this is a topic I also brought up in my >>>>> closing talk at ISOC's 25th anniversary event a few weeks ago. In the >>>>> past, it was assumed that more connectivity was always good. Nowadays, >>>>> as you point out, ubiquitous and constant connectivity has clear >>>>> downsides as well. In addition to the examples you discussed, Internet >>>>> addiction and the social problems it is already causing in some parts of >>>>> the world (e.g., increases in car accidents, social isolation, etc.) is >>>>> an important concern as well. >>>>> >>>>> I also agree with you that there are clear limits to what ISOC can or >>>>> should do about it. As I mentioned in previous emails, in addition to >>>>> the work on the mission statement we are working on defining ISOC's >>>>> scope in more detail in different areas, "policy" being one of them. We >>>>> are currently working on identifying particular areas where, based on >>>>> ISOC's capabilities, we should engage. We are also identifying areas >>>>> where ISOC should not get involved. >>>>> >>>>> With respect to capturing this in the mission statement, the proposed >>>>> text reads as follows: The Internet as "a force for good in society". >>>>> That sentence tries to capture the social benefits we are after (as >>>>> opposed to just wanting connectivity for the sake of it, without any >>>>> "higher" purpose). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Gonzalo >>>> >> > >
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