On 08/25/2011 12:32 AM, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest a bad faith situation, just reacting
to your WORDING :-)
Hmmm. You accused me of suggesting bad faith so the above is correct I
guess.
I agree that hotel prices have risen
I didn't say that. I said that IETF meeting hotel prices have
risen more than 20% above inflation. I have no idea if average
hotel prices for setups like ours have done that, or if the
IETF attendees are really getting a bad deal. I think the
latter though to be honest. Have you evidence that I'm right
or wrong?
> and that isn't limited to the
venues under consideration by the IETF. NANOG and APRICOT hotel rates
have gone up as have other meeting hotel rates,
Do you/the iaoc have solid information on that or just anecdotes?
Do the iaoc communicate with other conference organisers to get such
information?
Have those other rates gone up more or less than IETF HQ rates?
> and certainly the
hotels I stay in as an individual have gone up a LOT in, say, the last
ten years, and that's not even accounting for the currency changes. I
have a couple of "favorite" hotels that have have gone from "under
100" (for values of Euros, Pounds, Dollars, other kinds of dollars) to
"well above 200" in that timeframe.
Fine. But not very relevant. Hotel prices in, for example,
Ireland, have fallen thanks to our local financial incompetence.
I don't know the trends in hotel prices where we meet, but would
hope that the iaoc does. Do you?
I think the only way to get HQ hotel rates down
Have the iaoc actually tried to achieve this specific goal?
Personally, I don't believe you've been doing that, but I
could be wrong.
> is to go to the sort
of places that the IETF seems to not want to go. One of the cheapest
places to fly to in the world is Las Vegas. You can also get really
good hotel rates there, group or individual. Since I went to Las Vegas
every year for 10+ years and basically did nothing but attend a
conference and tradeshow *I* have no problem going back and would
certainly consider it an option, but I certainly don't love it and
wouldn't care if I ever set foot there again, and I know for a fact
that many on this list feel the same way.
Go for it and we'll see. Maybe it'll be crap (but to be honest
how much can it differ from Disney;-) but its worth trying so
long as the meeting facilities work for the meeting.
The University Campus, or maybe "University Conference Center" idea
is worth exploring, such places do exist (in Atlanta for example),
but, as others have pointed out, we need to clearly define what the
goal is here and recognize that there are some incompatible
requirements.
I think this is *very* much worth doing. (Full disclosure: I tried
to get IETF-72 in Trinity College Dublin but that fell over thanks
in part to our local fascist sysadmins who hopefully don't read this
list;-)
Bottom line - the HQ hotel is a big cost for those who stay there
and getting to the unaffordable state for various folks for various
reasons. *Please* make it a specific goal to reduce that. Or
produce some model of overall costs that you aim to reduce if you
prefer. Anything so long as its measurable and starts going down.
S.
PS: Just in case. Yes we can stay at alternative hotels. But
nonetheless, aiming to reduce the HQ hotel rate is still a
good thing.
Ole
Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: ole@xxxxxxxxx URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj
Skype: organdemo
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011, Stephen Farrell wrote:
On 08/24/2011 11:07 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
"....doesn't look that good in terms of iaoc performance over time."
Are you seriously suggesting that we are looking for more and more
expensive venues over time?
No. And obviously not. I don't see how it helps to suggest
that either.
Do you not think there might be some
factors such as inflation, currency fluctuations, general cost
increases (oil prices perhaps) that dictate most of this?
Inflation is accounted for in the figures given. We're
still>20% above inflation in terms of hotel prices based
on these figures.
You might claim hotel price inflation is higher than the
overall, I don't know. I would hope the iaoc would know
that. What I'm claiming is that the numbers seem to me
to show that the outcome is not so good. And hence it seems
to me that the iaoc is not performing that well in this respect.
You might bring out the meeting fee argument etc. but I
think you (the iaoc as a group) should start by acknowledging
that there is a real issue here and then try to address
that and *not* argue I'm accusing you of bad faith or
something.
S.
Ole
Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: ole@xxxxxxxxx URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj
Skype: organdemo
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