On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 13:05, Josh Boyer <jwboyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:57 PM Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 12:47, Owen Taylor <otaylor@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:40 PM Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 11:37, Owen Taylor <otaylor@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > Fedora needs to be an operating system provider, not just an operating > > > > > system toolbox provider. <cut> > > > > > > > > I feel like we have been saying this for 15+ years even before Fedora > > > > was Fedora. Even back in the RHL days, we would argue over whether > > > > what we were providing was an 'OS' or not versus a toolkit for someone > > > > else to work with. > > > > > > I don't think we've just been saying this, I think we've been steadily > > > improving in this area - both in our focus and in our processes. The > > > move to editions was particularly helpful. > > > > > > > I didn't mean to assume we haven't improved on it, but I do believe it > > is the central 'conflict' we have had. My main worry is that can we > > actually achieve being an "operating system provider" or are we always > > going to be a toolbox who isn't happy with itself? (or thirdly, are we > > already an operating system provider with delusions of being a > > toolbox?) > > Why do either of those possibilities matter? Or asked more directly, > why wouldn't we continue to look at ourselves and iterate and try to > improve? There is no "done" state in an operating system. > You communicated clearer in your previous email what I wanted to say better than I have in mine. Evolution versus revolution. We spend a lot of time and energy talking for and against revolutions every release because we don't seem to know what we are at and when in fact most of them are evolutions which later on weren't as big as expected. I just want us to come to some consensus on what we have accomplished, where we are at, and then see if we can work out what we need to iterate and improve. [I am probably still not communicating this any better than I did in my previous emails, as I think you covered it very well previously. ] > > How can we know if we actually are still making progress if we each > > have a different definition of what that operating system is. > > Great question. I know there are different ideas around it in terms > of platform vs. core/extras vs. lifecycles of different bits. I think > coming to a general consensus on that is a huge part of the discussion > we're having here. Thanks. I am interested in working out what we have accomplished so far, and what we are hurting on in concrete terms. > josh > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- Stephen J Smoogen. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
