On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:47 PM Owen Taylor <otaylor@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:40 PM Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 11:37, Owen Taylor <otaylor@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > Fedora needs to be an operating system provider, not just an operating > > > system toolbox provider. <cut> > > > > I feel like we have been saying this for 15+ years even before Fedora > > was Fedora. Even back in the RHL days, we would argue over whether > > what we were providing was an 'OS' or not versus a toolkit for someone > > else to work with. > > I don't think we've just been saying this, I think we've been steadily > improving in this area - both in our focus and in our processes. The > move to editions was particularly helpful. I think this is a key observation. Some people thought Editions were just rearranging stuff arbitrarily or for little value. I continue to see them as a great way to focus on specific user bases. What we're discussing now is just continuation of that at a more fundamental level. For some reason I can't understand, people want a revolution every time. Fedora often has a tendency to look at evolution as failure. That isn't sustainable and leads to repeating mistakes, creating totally new problems, etc. There is nothing wrong with iteration as long as you know where you're going and why you're making the changes you're making. In this particular round, I think focusing on some of the fundamentals on how we construct our OS (compose tooling, real actual CI, etc) is another evolution. Does it materially change what Fedora is to end users? No. Does it have benefits for them and for maintainers in the long run? Yes. We seem to also keep trying to force fit a single OS release methodology into all use cases. That leads to a poor fit many times. With looking at multiple lifecycles and how to pull that off using the fundamentals above, we can actually still look at being an OS provider but it doesn't have to be a singular OS. We can create the platform necessary to have commonality at certain layers across different use cases. Do I think all of this will happen in a single Fedora "release"? No. It's good to be somewhat timeboxed, and I think we can make really great strides on some of it. For other bits we'll have to see how things fall out going forward. But if we don't take the time now to work on the enablers, the big picture or theoretical goals won't matter. josh _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
