This was about half of my point, writing these applications in PHP is
difficult, it is a task to be overcome. PHP requires cajoling into being
useful. Your solution to "use the Java extension" is peculiarly ironic -
yes: Use Java!
If the only language you know is PHP i'm sure it looks very capable, and
i was, several years ago, in this position (wanting to write various
desktop apps in it) the wise and experienced freenode gurus then told me
to learn the right tools. Despite how it may look from the myopia of
primarily PHP development, PHP isnt a desktop-capable language. It would
take a great deal of time and effort to do in PHP what would take a
handful of lines in python, due to the extensive library support.
Many PHP programmers goes thru' the phase of wanting to write 'http
servers', 'irc clients', etc. in PHP. It would be irresponsible to not
point them in the direction of more capable languages, when they are in
fact, greatly more capable.
Eddie Drapkin wrote:
While the technology is pretty immature at the moment, due to its under-use
no doubt, saying that PHP is never the tool for a desktop application is
pretty inane. While the primary developmental lifecycle is geared towards
web development (who's arguing that?), there's nothing really pervasive
preventing people from using it for desktop apps. Given the recent focus
towards closing memory leaks internally and the control of the (new, iirc)
garbage collector, I wouldn't say it's a bad idea, resource speaking, to
write in PHP (certainly no worse than Java). There's sound support, GTK
support, CUPS support, Windows COM / printing support, so the support for
the APIs is certainly there (and where it's not, there's ways around it,
like with the java extension).
Just because you have a hammer that's only been used for nailing particle
board doesn't mean it's not suited for hammering into plywood! The only
issue I see with PHP is the relative difficulty of making "stand-alone"
applications that are bundled with a statically compiled PHP executable, but
that shouldn't be too hard to overcome, with a little bit of time and
creativity.
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Michael <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Robert Cummings wrote:
Michael wrote:
Paul M Foster wrote:
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote:
<snip>
I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another
language
would be better for this. Such as Python.
PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't use
it for
a production application.
I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much
prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish.
Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications?
Paul
Why wouldnt you? Besides the design of PHP generally being completely
against it? PHP is not designed to be run continuously in infinite-loop
(while true) scenarios...
Citation?
see the history of php development and use
it's threading support is poor and it's memory
What does threading support have to do with running something in an
infinite loop? What if I don't need threads?
handing and library are geared almost exclusively towards
web-programming.
I dunno, I've written amultitude of shell/cron scripts in PHP that
leverage the codebase already written for the web application.
i wasnt arguing against cron-scripts, these are 'run-once' sort of things
which php handles well. they dont run for minutes let alone hours.
If you want to compile it, or use it in a .NET/Java context... fine (see
phc, etc.). The language itself can handle it, but the standard
implementation *shouldnt*.
Why?
for the reasons detailed in this post. using web-oriented php as a desktop
programming language is a magnitude of dumb perhaps only eclipsed by the
smarty programming language
In anycase other languages have much better support of desktop and
network programming, entire libraries and communities have been developed
around it. Preferably use Python/Java/etc. though C has its place.
As I've said before, ones place in the sun can't be identified if one
never tries sitting in the sun. It's hard to grasp the proverbial brass ring
if you never extend your reach.
There are good reasons why php isnt "in the sun" (ie. used for desktop
programming), as i've listed. If you'd care to learn a few other languages
the reasons would be immediately obvious, python can be learnt in a few days
- try it.
Cheers,
Rob.
The standard PHP execution model is geared almost exclusively towards
web-used (though crons etc. are reasonable)... that is, to sit in/with a
server and handle requests... to operate over, at maximum, "insane"
lifespans of 30 seconds.
There are languages designed to be used for desktop programming, and for
various tasks in general. The smart thing would be to use them. PHP may be a
hammer, but every problem is not a nail.
Use the tools designed for the job.
Michael
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