On 10/10/07, Tony Marston <tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > ""Nathan Nobbe"" <quickshiftin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message > news:7dd2dc0b0710091843g3582f7d1q4d2841447b05d327@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > On 10/9/07, Tony Marston <tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> > >> > >> ""Nathan Nobbe"" <quickshiftin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message > >> news:7dd2dc0b0710091529o78441a3fib0780f8c87ef00be@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > On 10/9/07, Tony Marston <tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> There's your problem, then. You are wasting your time trying to > >> implement > >> >> fancy design patterns just because design patterns are supposed to > be > >> >> "cool". Loader class, Controller Base class, Front Controller - I > >> >> have > >> >> none > >> >> of that crap in my code, so I don't encounter the problems you have. > >> >> > >> > > >> > your site talks about the use of mvc in radicore so we can assume > youre > >> > using at least one design pattern; > >> > >> When I say that I do not use design patterns I mean that I do not try > to > >> implemet as many design patterns as possible, > > > > > > i never suggested any one do that nor did i suggest that i do that. > > > > and I certainly do not litter > >> my conversations with this pattern or that pattern. > > > > then you failed to grasp one of the most important concepts about > design > > patterns. > > they provide a common vocabulary to allow designers to talk about > > implementing > > systems at a high level without having to waste time talking about > > specific > > details. > > Yes, but many of today's programmers regard design patterns with a > religious > zeal which borders on fanaticism. Such people cannot bring anything of > value > to the conversation. many is a generalization; i have never suggested that patterns be used without regard or care. > In the whole of my > >> career there have only ever been two patterns that I have read about > and > >> subsequently sought to implement, and thoose are the Three Tier > >> Architecture > >> and the Singleton. The fact that my framework contains an example of > MVC > >> is > >> pure coincidence. It just happened that way. It was only after someone > >> else > >> looked at my code and said "You've implemented the MVC pattern" that I > >> read > >> about it and discovered that it was a perfect match. I certainly did > not > >> read about MVC and then try to implement it. > > > > > > that is very common. many if not most people implement patterns all the > > time and dont realize it. > > Just because someone may see a pattern in my code does not mean that I > first > studied the pattern and then implemented it. precisely I wrote the code without any > knowledge of the pattern, therefore I did not use the pattern when writing > my code. you used the pattern and you didnt realize it until later; like i said; very common. > one benefit of patterns is people can communicate at the pattern > > level. recognition is powerful as well; if you happen to see a pattern > > when > > you are working out a design; the pieces just fall into place; or at > least > > you have > > a road map. > > I don't waste my time talking about design patterns to the pattern > zealots. > It is as productive as attempting to have a theological discussion with a > religeous fanatic - a total waste of time unless you share their point of > view. > > Too many of today's programmers can only "see" patterns after they have > read > about them in a book. They vie with each other to see how many patterns > they > can juggle at the same time, or complain that someone els'e implementation > of a particular pattern is "unsound" or "impure". > > >> and if radicore has a single point of entry you are using a front > >> controller. > >> > >> I do not have a single point entry. Each page has its own controller, > so > >> I > >> have hundreds of page controllers. A single front controller is > something > >> that is used in compiled languages. > > > > > > its also used heavily in php; take a look at code igniter for a first > > example. > > Just because people use font controllers in PHP does not make them a good > thing. I personally think they are crap. i prefer them over multiple points of entry; apparently code igniter does too. >> might want to knock the dust off the old design pattern books just to jog > >> > your memory:) > >> > >> I've put my books of design patterns on the top shelf where they shall > >> remain untouched as they contain nothing of use to me. They may give > >> hints > >> to novices, but I am no longer a novice. I no longer need training > wheels > >> on my bicycle, so why do I need books on design patterns? > > > > > > ill be honest; i like what youve done w/ xsl, you even taught me some > > things; but when it comes to oop; well i think you should get the books > > back down from the top shelf. > > > > -nathan > > > > Why? What is wrong with my implementation of OOP? Surely I have used > encapsulation, inheritance and polymorphism to increase code reuse and > decrease maintenance, therefore my implementation can only be regarded as > effective. The fact that you don't like my style is your problem, not > mine. because you keep saying you dont see the benefits of the features in php5; repeatedly you ask why, why, why; why interfaces for example. as i have suggested; pick up a book and read about it. -nathan
