On 10.12.23 01:02, Mario Marietto wrote:
Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for. Actually we are trying to
boot FreeBSD with xen on our arm 32 Chromebook. But if it fails we could
try L4Linux. Yes,they say that's similar to xen,but with some important
differences that I haven't read and understood yet.
This is pure speculation because I don't have time to dig deeper into
L4Linux but I think the whole solution will be worse than Xen. When
Linux is really run as a process this means:
a) It's likely that it's an adopted version of the linux kernel so it's
likely also old
b) A process is a strictly defined thing with a clearly defined API that
is actually designed to do very different things, the things an OS
Kernel does might fit very bad into that meaning that a lot of the
behaviour might have to use workaround and might be quite imperformant.
For example the linux kernel is multithreaded and different kernel
threads can talk to each other quite easily, can they do the same on L4?
Might be difficult.
Thanks for your
invitation to read. Yes,I'm very interested in all the virtualization
stuff all around,but I'm not sure that reading a complicated book will
help me.
I'm actually sure about that and the answer is no. But "Modern Operating
Systems" is no complicated book, it's a very easy to read introduction
for beginners, usually it's read by undergraduate students that have
never programmed before.
My training at the college has been totally different,I'm a
psychologist. Do you think that one can be able to learn by himself how
an operating system works by reading and studying a book found on the
Internet,without the support of a teacher ?
Yes, given enough motivation and work ethic. I've never heard even one
university course on linux kernel programming, my university degree was
mostly about math
Do you think that we can remove
colleges from the face of the earth ?
No, because lots of people don't have enough motivation, work ethic or
structure, actually I think the benefit of colleges / universities is
not really the subject but teaching people the skills to actually
acquire knowledge themselves and abstract thinking.
-- Richard
On Sat, Dec 9, 2023 at 8:01 PM Richard <richard_siegfried@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:richard_siegfried@xxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I looked at this,
L4 is a family of Microkernels:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family>
L4Re is a project to let other operating system kernels run as
processes
on top of a L4 Kernel. But they are still monolithic kernels even when
you run them on top of another kernel. Actually all this is similar
to Xen.
Since you are interested in those things I would really recommend
reading one of the textbooks. "Modern Operating Systems" by Tanenbaum
even has a chapter on exactly this it's called "Are hypervisors
microkernels done right?"
-- Richard
On 09.12.23 14:24, Mario Marietto wrote:
> ---> Neither FreeBSD nor Linux has a microkernel
>
> Can you give a look here ?
>
> https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/>
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/>>
>
> where it says :
>
> "You are free to use any Linux distribution you like, or even
BSDs or
> any of its derivatives"
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 12:53 PM Mario Marietto
<marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx>>>
wrote:
>
> Ok but then what it means what I read below (taken from
wikipedia) :
>
> ^L4 Linux also allows setting up a virtualized
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtualization>> environment vaguely
> similar to Xen <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen>> or Kernel-bas
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine>>
> ed Virtual Machine
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine>> (KVM),
> but a few significant differences exist^// between the intent
of Xen
> and L^4 Linux.
>
> Il ven 8 dic 2023, 12:13 Richard
<richard_siegfried@xxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:richard_siegfried@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:richard_siegfried@xxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:richard_siegfried@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>> ha scritto:
>
>
>
> On 08.12.23 09:11, Mario Marietto wrote:
> > With l4linux (or redox) can I boot and run 2 linux distros
> using the
> > same kernel ? I ask because the developers talk about
> virtualization and
> > because CoLinux allows us to boot Linux while using
Windows
> > What I'm very interested to achieve is to run Linux as a
> process under
> > FreeBSD or vice versa,using the best of those two
microkernels.
>
> Neither FreeBSD nor Linux has a microkernel. From all your
> questions I
> think it would be helpful to read up on some Operating System
> Theory
> before you go on. I can recommend "Operating Systems -
Three Easy
> Pieces"
>
(https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf <https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf> <https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf <https://techiefood4u.files.wordpress.com/2020/02/operating_systems_three_easy_pieces.pdf>>
> )
>
> It's almost as good as the Tanenbaum Classic, but free.
>
> -- Richard
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 2:15 AM <jim.cromie@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:jim.cromie@xxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:jim.cromie@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jim.cromie@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > <mailto:jim.cromie@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:jim.cromie@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:jim.cromie@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:jim.cromie@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 1:02 PM Mario Marietto
> > <marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx>>
> <mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:marietto2008@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > What is this ?
> > >
> > >
> https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/>
>
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/>>
> >
>
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/>
>
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/
<https://l4re.org/download/snapshots/pre-built-images/arm-v7/>>>
> > >
> >
> > Thats a micro-kernel, sort of like GNU Hurd.
> >
> > theres also
> >
https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html
<https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html>
> <https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html
<https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html>>
> >
<https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html
<https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html>
> <https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html
<https://doc.redox-os.org/book/ch04-01-microkernels.html>>>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mario.
>
>
>
> --
> Mario.
>
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Mario.
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