On 7/15/19 12:32 PM, Jacob Hoffman-Andrews wrote:
To reinforce what Melinda's saying: I dedicate less time to IETF work than I otherwise would, specifically because of the hostile and alien nature of debate here. I have colleagues who feel the same way, and other colleagues who refrain entirely from participating at the IETF because of it.
I believe you. But could you drill down a bit into (i.e. define more precisely) "hostile" and/or "alien"? Because I suspect these words mean different things to different people.
I have seen many reasons why people might be reluctant to contribute technical input to IETF. Among these are those that you mention, but also (and perhaps more importantly) people who feel that it is "not their place" (or to put it differently, it would be "impolite") to offer an opinion that conflicts with the opinion of someone with apparently higher status. I saw this a lot when I was on IESG - people who would not say what they really thought (no matter how much I tried to encourage them) apparently because they thought I might disagree with them.
(My personal belief is that quite often there is not a single right answer to a problem, so insisting that someone has to be right and others wrong is counterproductive. But good compromises come from having, and respecting, a wide variety of input. Impassioned _technical_ arguments can produce such compromises, but only if everyone's dedicated to producing a good result, and has reason to trust that the community will encourage and facilitate that. Sometimes you have to get to the root of a disagreement in order to find out what's really important, and sometimes that's a frustrating process.)
Also, I have sometimes found input from people who claimed to be speaking up for others' right to speak, to itself have a chilling effect on others' willingness to speak up.
I hope there's general agreement that people should be free to contribute technical ideas and opinions without fear of reprisal. What's the best way to encourage that?
It can certainly take a lot longer to write an email that expresses disagreement strongly but without attacking the recipients (or other parties). Often it takes multiple revisions. But it's worth all of us taking the time and making those revisions in order to make the IETF a sustainable venue.
I certainly agree that personal attacks are inappropriate, and hope others also feel that way.
Keith
