To clarify since this has come up several times, the topic came up as a result of a discussion on the IETF hackathon list.
Regards,
Alia
On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 1:44 PM, Mary B <mary.h.barnes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Joe,Thanks for providing some more context. But, why can't the problem be handled by someone asking the person/people that have a tendency to get in people's faces, to please stop doing that? Or has been noted elsewhere, those that are really feeling *physically* intimidated should talk to the ombudsperson. Why do we need some sort of special designation for this specific behavior that is intimidating? If someone is afraid to talk to the ombudsperson, then that's another problem. The points you bring up which are valid apply to an awful lot of negative behaviors in this organization (e.g., worrying about the consequences of highly-placed, people, etc.).Regards,Mary.On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 12:16 PM, Joe Hildebrand <hildjj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:> On Mar 2, 2018, at 10:59 AM, Toerless Eckert <tte@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> If a photographer is not respecting their wishes, they still
>> have to decide to raise it as an issue with the ombudsfolks.
>
> Great point. Didn't think of the ombudsman when i asked about the
> current collection of complaints to justify the need for a written
> policy. Maybe one of them will chime in and enlighten us.
It may be that they can do that within the bounds of their ethical guidelines. In case they can't, let me speak a little bit about the complaints that I have received in my time on the IAB -- not because this was an IAB issue, or because I was the right person to talk to necessarily, but because I happened to be in the right place at the right time wearing a dot. I am NOT speaking on behalf of the IAB here, just for myself.
Several people feel *physically* intimidated by having a camera shoved in their face repeatedly, then having pictures of them posted through unofficial channels. Where it is clear that particular sorts of people figure prominently in those channels.
Those people don't feel empowered to speak up because they fear this EXACT conversation. They expect that they will be told that they should toughen up, that things have always been this way, that they shouldn't feel the way they feel. They feel like their business opportunities will dry up if they talk about how scared they are. They are unwilling to participate more at the IETF because of these concerns.
Those of us who don't have those concerns because we're not the target of physical intimidation, feel empowered to fight back against it, and don't mind the consequences of people that are highly-placed in the industry thinking of as whiners should take a breath and think about our responsibility to the future.
Ask yourself if you're arguing on the pro-intimidation side, please?
—
Joe Hildebrand
(no hats)
