-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 4/12/16 09:15, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Ted, you missed my point. Yes, I can arrange a call with the > relevant people. And I frequently do. It is harder, but that would > be acceptable. > > The important part is that such calls are MUCH less effective than > face-to-face discussions. There are lots of well-known reasons > for this. > > And no, inc ase it was not obvious, without the face-to-face > meeting, there is no way to arrange such face-to-face meetings. If the goal of the IETF is to replicate the experience of an IETF meeting using telepresence tools, that is an impossible task. Telepresence is not being present. To my mind, the question is if a large scale use of telepresence tools can create a working environment that the IETF membership can use to advance the IETF's goals. I'm curious enough about that question to support an assessment of how expensive and difficult it would be to replace one IETF meeting with a large scale telepresence experiment. I think we should evaluate that experiment (should it occur) based on whether or not the broader goals advance (standards and documents advance, new ideas are sparked, the membership is appropriately updated), not how they are advanced (discussions at the Scotch BOF, plenary and BA, speaking at the mic in WG meetings). I seems to me that a successful experiment would mean that we use more large scale telepresence. It may someday turn out that such events replace some IETF meetings; it may not. I don't know of any organizations of the scale of the IETF that have historically relied on face to face meetings and transitioned solely to large scale telepresence, so my expectation is that IETF meetings will continue. (Just to forestall the question: Anonymous seems to run entirely on large scale telepresence (for some definition thereof). It's got a whole set of procedures and traditions that enable that. It's a fascinating situation, but I see little inspiration or intuition for changing IETF procedures from it.) > > Yes, we should work to make remote participation more effective. > Doing away with the face-to-face meetings reminds me of the old SF > story of the ballet dancers who were forced to dance wearing extra > weights, to be "fair" to the less talented dancers. Paging Harrison Bergeron. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron - -- Ted Faber <theodore.v.faber@xxxxxxxx> Engineering Specialist Computer Systems Research Department 310-336-7373 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXDTF7AAoJEFNjQnOBW8uOXRMP/1ynBlK7upPubIGAzvdqjLMx dBxvS+8sJKbFBGSf2upkexjBYiDHMXnCGkNXi+rMbb70eq9h62jD1SjEMXt58TH5 I93M07KDzWk0AhBXZmrZ5aj/K6BrtdGl/+BnKkmudn5mgqSg/Yho9QPALG/9KBuk 1nl3k0zAl43GEIqV+2Aaff2Us5Lcl2U03PJNRp2XMMjm+btJ/mXYW6SRNUdlYsaL +lIGAaQZ3D54LPrfyoMAQCLnA7/gAjU/KtM2lUxM3l6YJvYkcU1enBG/qFnbac1g IZp4OTuhOmlcEppmMj5auFzROZz0mjmXH8tecxwl01vd3lIDqeqJbbqQEyySVTqD 7w8tYliHbYzjrMwezQ9XQdkal1uly6vzP9/CWtK1OiBsr+dKJKRm1j78zOEEcLxl KimzbZLrvFfAWPwwKIpMf55Mc535bLviIsVPwmFGBbE0U7xs3d0OSK81BYUH57MZ QuBHQxjamYRH8qCU4d+AH78yVTu89IIM/Ilu6HN956QPa5Na+QU6o02t/yyO2iiF RBv8uJymDsvjoy5LoYHcQ7L3XO5LNwXin0lUtIY9KZ3mzqIJnBlGUVoh+whce9Al Fx+GM4MZPKmRmSlYyhwPG33M357UVUMxKCdS/lGiwR6sQUxMzSuxfDQ/aYpqG1Fj 5WR1cl4yU64RK/qaIl5r =7cfg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----