On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 08:05:19AM +0000, Andrew Allen wrote: > We could be left with the only possible venue being a cruise ship > sailing in international waters - [snip] There is another alternative -- one I've raised repeatedly. Don't have physical meetings. Then this entire problem space simply vanishes, along with the need for a discusion thread that's now over a hundred messages. (And it's not the first one.) YES, it's replaced by a different problem space, which roughly works out to "how can everything be done virtually?" but given that this is the *Internet* engineering task force I have no doubt that the collective expertise is more than capable of dealing with that. Particularly if all the discussion, effort, and expense going into the logistics of physical meetings is redirected into virtual ones instead. I really can't take any of the platitudes about "inclusion" seriously until that happens -- because as long as the IETF persists with physical meetings, most people *will* be excluded due to cost, distance, time, legal climate, personal safety, etc. The IETF is, even if accidentally, selecting for the elite few who are fortunate enough to be attend. ---rsk