> I don't think that it is possible to do go back > to an old version of the IETF, assuming that > version actually existed. The incentives are > such that decisions are taken at meetings; it > works to the advantage of people funded by > corporations, it is politically appropriate to > live with an untruth or a half-truth. it's not just meetings. who has funding to spend a lot of time on ietf work? vendors employees. http://archive.psg.com/051000.ccr-ivtf.html it's not evil. it's not collusion. it's just physics in a capitalist society. i go to ietf meetings because i get a lot done. but little of it is in wg meetings as they have been drowned in ppt. which means, among other things, that it is not recorded in any way useful for folk unable to attend. the part i really love is when a serious discussion erupts in a wg meeting and it gets shut down because the agenda has more ppt on the schedule. btw, i think many chairs try to ameliorate this and actually try to make serious agenda space for discussion. but the pressure on them "i deserve to be able to present my ppt" makes it difficult. and the rush to get one's draft done in time so one can present ppt at the meeting means that those who actually care enough to read drafts get hit by a massive load just before the meeting so can not do as high a quality review as they might like. randy