>> maybe the result would be slightly improved if chairs did not call >> for presentations at wg meetings, but instead called for items >> needing face to face discussion? > I try but it's an uphill struggle. I'm hoping against hope that one > of the things that comes out of the wg chairs training session on > consensus is a better understanding of why this is such a big deal. we waste immense amounts of time of the literate in a hopeless attempt to insert clue into the lazy or illiterate. just say a hard no to "i want to present draft-..." has your draft been discussed on the mailing list and has shown serious divergence of views such that facetime is really needed? randy