Spencer Dawkins <spencerdawkins.ietf@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >On 9/3/2013 9:26 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: >> >> S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> The new text is as follows: Participants, particularly those with >>> English as a first language, attempt to accommodate the needs of >>> other participants by communicating clearly. Participants try to >>> accommodate each other. >> Except for the part between the commas it's great. As written, it >presumes that a mis-communication between a native speaker of English >and someone who isn't is the fault of the native speaker. I don't >think this is appropriate. > >Hi, Scott, > >Keeping in mind that we wouldn't be looking at this text in the first >place, if it was easy to communicate ... ;-) > >What I thought the parenthetical presumed, was that a native English >speaker(*) might have more tools to use in helping repair >mis-communication - for example, a native English speaker might have a >larger vocabulary, if paraphrasing would help understanding, and might >be more likely to use obscure English idioms(**) that don't translate >easily into other languages and cultures. So, not that >mis-communication >is the native English speaker's fault, but that the native English >speaker might be better positioned to make the first move to improve >communication. > >Spencer > >(*) Obviously there are people, including people at the IETF, who >learned English as a second (or third, or ...) language and now have >better English communication skills than I do, so "native English >speaker/English as a first language" might benefit from rephrasing, if >the thought survives. > >(**) My Chinese co-workers can conjure up 5000 years of rich idioms, >and >I enjoy hearing them, but they don't seem to translate them into >English >and insert them into conversations nearly as often as I insert idioms >into conversations ... I think that is a given without having pre-emptive blame assignment in the text. Scott K