Hi Keith,
On Sun, Jul 16, 2023 at 3:26 PM Keith Moore <moore@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 7/16/23 09:06, Joel Halpern wrote:
> IETF procedures explicitly allow for open and closed dsign teams.
> They also allow for self-formed teasm and teams appointed by WG
> chairs. There is very little procedural requirement on them.
> Presumably, since the work is intended to be contribution to the IETF,
> the Note Well applies to design teams.
>
> IN my experience, closed design teams formed for a specific purpose
> tend to work better than the alternatives. But different WGs and
> different problems prompt different approaches.
>
While IETF does permit closed design teams, a danger of closed design
teams is that they can, in practice, be used to coerce the WG into
accepting poor decisions.
Decisions made by a design team still require rough consensus from the
mailing list. If the group is told by someone in authority (say the WG
chair or document editor) that the design team's decisions are not
negotiable or subject to revision, that's IMO a process violation.
They don't say directly not negotiable, but the way the WG chair presents the team_result/team_decision makes the WG_participants have no opportunity to disagree, especially if they had a closed_team_of_design. I always ask when I am in any IETF_WG who are our WG participants? the answer will be the posters to the WG_list or the subscribed to the WG_list, so that is not. The subscribe are 50 participants, and the arguing participants on the WG_list are 5, but still when one disagree and 4 are agreeing and we can add two draft_authors agreeing then the chair will say will we have consensus of agreeing even though only 6 agree from 50, so where is the other 43 participants. The WG_chair should make sure at least 25 participants agree then yes there is Consensus.
When we call it a design team makes it look like not negotiable. I remember that one UK professor at my postgraduate_university said when they say Working Group that means it is not determined just a group of people with no great value. So if I compare between Design_Team (DT) and Working_Group, I will say the WG should follow the DT especially that the DT members are the editors and few_WG_participants.
The DT MUST report including there suggestions only and they MUST say as NoteWell say, that their decision is only an input. I recommend they write that report into the IETF datatracker.
AB
Regards,
AB
