On 12/7/20 1:47 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Dec 07, 2020 at 01:24:22PM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
So who does this ^ article mean when they say "new users" - because
if installation is the big hurdle (and it's not just for Fedora),
why is there no mention of installing how to / partitioning how to
in this article?
Well, I guess I'm coming at this from the other direction. I see
non-theoretical new Fedora users hitting a problem.
I get that, but "dual-boot" is a solution, not a problem. (Well, it's a
problem when you accidentally wipe out your ability to boot Windows or
worse lol, but generally it's not the problem-to-solve here.)
Like, if you step back and view "dual-boot" as a solution, what problem
could it possibly be solving? Some ideas:
1. I only own one computer and I want to run more than one OS. Is this
really a problem? Does someone who owns one computer not have access to
flash drives, external HDDs, or (completely free and functional) VM
software? Especially considering the latter, absolutely not, they do
have access to VM software. So let's go another step, why would a VM not
solve the problem?
2. I only own one computer, I want to run more than one OS, and both
OSes *must* be baremetal. OK. I need help with the latter half. I could
see, some kind of hand-wavy "I'm a gamer and my graphics hardware /
gamery stuff only works best baremetal" but I could not see that for the
Linux side, only the Windows side, meaning, put a Linux VM on your
Windows OS, there's no problem. So is there a problem that demands a
solution that must OSes be baremetal because if it exists I don't know
what it is nor how common it is?
3. I own a few computers, but I am a tech journalist and I need to
install multiple distros in a multiboot situation so I can review them.
I also kind of don't understand how VM doesn't solve this case. It's a
case that was brought up the last time we had a grand multi-boot
discussion (in the context of installer UX.)
So I don't actually understand the problem dual-boot really solves
exclusive to other potential solutions here, and I am totally open to
not knowing / understanding it or missing it so let me know if I am
missing it.
Anyway, to reframe things towards the problem instead of the solution
first:
The problem here is enabling folks to try Fedora without blowing away
another OS, isn't it? Dual-boot is a pretty poor solution to this if
you care about the other OS and are not experienced with partitioning
(it is also a poor experience if you *are* experienced with partitioning.)
I suspect the right / best solution is to evaluate where our livemedia
story is, upgrade the bits that need upgrading to make it robust (as I
think Neal mentioned elsewhere in the thread), and make the try story as
easy as, "stick a usb flash drive of (>= whatever size) into your
computer and run this app", and the baremetal install story have an
actual narrative / plan of sorts that can be filled in with details as
the user prefers. But just a sketch of an outline.
So for example, if ACT I of the story starts out, "Hey, I use Windows
and I heard about this Linux thing and I want to try it":
Pre-req: Admin to install app on Windows system, USB stick (>= $size)
that can be wiped
STEP 1: Download $liveusbcreator for Windows _here_ and install on your
system.
STEP 2: Stick USB stick in your system and install Fedora to it using
$liveusbcreator.
STEP 3: Try Fedora out for a little bit, noting you'll lose data on boot
unless you save it to cloud drives (which you can hook up using GOA for
example.) (unless we fix persistent partitions of course)
Then Act II, which is what you seem most concerned about is, "Hey, I
tried Fedora out and I think I'm ready to take the next step and make it
my main thing."
The parts of the narrative that need to be defined here:
- Am I keeping my Windows system intact and have (or plan to have)
access to another system (another laptop, workstation, raspberry pi,
whatever) to run Fedora exclusively on?
- Do I have the ability to get a new fresh hard drive and install it
into the chassis of my system or plug in externally and install to that?
- Am I OK backing my data up / ghosting my Windows harddisk maybe, and
wiping the system from fresh to install Fedora?
- Do I need to work with a single hard drive / multiboot situation?
The best experience is always installing on a fresh, unencumbered disk,
isn't it? It's also the easiest for the end user in terms of minimizing
stress, mental load, risk. So if we could lay out a plan for them based
on their tolerance for the top 3 options above -
- Use Windows 10 System Image to make a copy of the windows system:
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-make-full-backup-windows-10
- Securely back up the system image to a cloud service
- Installing Fedora to drive wiping the Windows install
- Installing the windows image to a VM in Fedora
- Wiping Fedora and reinstalling Windows from the image baremetal
Kind of to give them ideas on the different strategies they could follow
with some instructions or pointers on how to do each, so they even know
what is possible, and giving some guidance as to what we recommend for
the best experience / best support. I think multi-boot would fall pretty
low on that list. It's fragile I think for a lot of reasons in a lot of
ways.
Maybe you're right and we're not actually worse than other distros in this
area. I still see it as something we can improve. We could try to do some
more research on the users who are coming in organically like the ones I'm
seeing, or we could try to develop guides for different personas.
I would like to know where the idea for dual boot came from. It's a
common thing right for someone to come in asking for help doing a
$solution and you have to get everyone to step back to define the
$problem first, then direct towards the right $solution. If that makes
sense.
Also sorry for the WALLSOFTEXT on all of this, it's just something I've
thought a lot about in the past from all of the installer UX work I've
been involved with and I gathered a lot of info / data on it already.
~m
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