On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 3:17 PM Jiri Vanek <jvanek@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On 5/24/22 22:02, Fabio Valentini wrote: > > Is this based on user requests, or is this only what you *think* users > > I'm not sure what you mean - from above - what is based on mine/wider thinking > Generally waht I wrote here it is based on judgmeent of about 10 people around OpenJDK pacages in Fedora. > The equations above are based on realistic view and experience. Do you yo find some misscalcualtion above? > > I really appreciate you opinions, and would be happyt answer more precisely. Thank you for your response, I appreciate that you're engaging with feedback here. The way I understood your last message, it seemed to me that you were claiming that actual Fedora users are requesting that you ship so many different OpenJDK versions. However, in this thread, I see the opposite - almost everybody is asking you to consider dropping support for at least some non-default OpenJDK versions, and nobody is advocating for keeping all of them. So my question was whether you have actual user feedback requesting that so many different versions are available on Fedora. > > of OpenJDK on Fedora need? > > Speaking for myself, I have never used anything other than the default > > "system JDK" for running Java applications on Fedora. > > Are you really sure? Many applications runtime requiter non system jdk, so they pull it in and use, and maybe you have not even noticed. > Many develoeprs ahve installe dmany JDKS (in my case all from repos, unless I need to compile jimage) and the switch as needed. I'm quite sure, though I'm not using as many Java applications as I used to. The Minecraft "Java Edition" has always worked fine with the "system / default JDK", so I never needed to install another one. And the JetBrains IDEs have bundled their own JDK for a while now, I think, so I don't have to deal with those, either (and I wouldn't even want to mess with my main development environment to make it use something other than the JDK it ships with). > > > > What would you think about the following scenario: > > > > - Fedora X defaults to new OpenJDK LTS N > > - Fedora X keeps OpenJDK LTS N-1 so it's possible to revert the change > > - Fedora X+1 drops OpenJDK N-1, since the newer OpenJDK N was already > > the default for one release > > - do not backport OpenJDK n to Fedora X-1 and X-2 > > - keep java-latest-openjdk, as you seen to need this for bootstrapping > > new OpenJDK releases > > This is possible solution. It will lower the TCK burden to aprox 3/5 with lost of most widely used JDKs from repositories. > I'm open to this proposal. But the removal will hurt and way back will be much harder then swithing static builds back to dynamic. > > > > You could even drop java-latest-openjdk from all branches but rawhide, > > since it's only needed for bootstrapping there. > > Taht is very valid point. Cost is it will force huge number of uses to download 3rd party latest STS jdk. it is where all new features live. Are there really that many Fedora users who need and install java-latest-openjdk? Do you have estimates of how many people do this, compared to how many users just use the default system JDK? > > This should pretty dramatically reduce the size of your test matrix. > > Applying the current numbers: > > > > - Fedora Rawhide: java-17-openjdk (default), java-latest-openjdk > > - Fedora 36: java-17-openjdk (default), java-11-openjdk (in case the > > default needs to be switched back), java-latest-openjdk > > - Fedora 35: java-11-openjdk, java-latest-openjdk > > > > it is a bit less then I wrote, - about 3/5 of current load but do yoreally wish to cut all those jdks from fedora? > To me the static repacked build sill somehow seems as smaller evil then drop practically all interesting jdks out of distro. Yeah, why not? I'm asking whether it's actually worth your time to keep them around. Given that there's probably limited userbase and the resources that are needed to keep them around, this is a valid question, I think. Speaking for myself, I'd rather have the default, integrated, system JDK be of the high quality it has been in Fedora, rather than having many different, less-integrated versions around. > So here I need to rephrase your question - is it based on your's thinking or on what fedora users really needs? > I think the oposite - they need all jdks which are around. Proeprly integrated with system. How they are built .. they do not care. > If update to neewer Fedora wil lmake some older JDK disapear, or if need of new one will force me to update Fedora when I don't want or cant. I call it much worse user expereince Well, isn't that the point? BTW, I noticed that despite java-17-openjdk being the default system JDK on Fedora 36, it wasn't installed instead of java-11-openjdk when I upgraded from Fedora 35. That sounds like the change proposal wasn't fully implemented, either? Fabio _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
