On Wed, 2022-05-25 at 15:40 +0200, Fabio Valentini wrote: > On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 3:17 PM Jiri Vanek <jvanek@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On 5/24/22 22:02, Fabio Valentini wrote: > > > Is this based on user requests, or is this only what you *think* > > > users > > > > I'm not sure what you mean - from above - what is based on > > mine/wider thinking > > Generally waht I wrote here it is based on judgmeent of about 10 > > people around OpenJDK pacages in Fedora. > > The equations above are based on realistic view and experience. Do > > you yo find some misscalcualtion above? > > > > I really appreciate you opinions, and would be happyt answer more > > precisely. > > Thank you for your response, I appreciate that you're engaging with > feedback here. > > The way I understood your last message, it seemed to me that you were > claiming that actual Fedora users are requesting that you ship so > many > different OpenJDK versions. > However, in this thread, I see the opposite - almost everybody is > asking you to consider dropping support for at least some non-default > OpenJDK versions, and nobody is advocating for keeping all of them. > So > my question was whether you have actual user feedback requesting that > so many different versions are available on Fedora. > > > > of OpenJDK on Fedora need? > > > Speaking for myself, I have never used anything other than the > > > default > > > "system JDK" for running Java applications on Fedora. > > > > Are you really sure? Many applications runtime requiter non system > > jdk, so they pull it in and use, and maybe you have not even > > noticed. > > Many develoeprs ahve installe dmany JDKS (in my case all from > > repos, unless I need to compile jimage) and the switch as needed. > > I'm quite sure, though I'm not using as many Java applications as I > used to. > The Minecraft "Java Edition" has always worked fine with the "system > / > default JDK", so I never needed to install another one. > And the JetBrains IDEs have bundled their own JDK for a while now, I > think, so I don't have to deal with those, either (and I wouldn't > even > want to mess with my main development environment to make it use > something other than the JDK it ships with). > > > > > > > What would you think about the following scenario: > > > > > > - Fedora X defaults to new OpenJDK LTS N > > > - Fedora X keeps OpenJDK LTS N-1 so it's possible to revert the > > > change > > > - Fedora X+1 drops OpenJDK N-1, since the newer OpenJDK N was > > > already > > > the default for one release > > > - do not backport OpenJDK n to Fedora X-1 and X-2 > > > - keep java-latest-openjdk, as you seen to need this for > > > bootstrapping > > > new OpenJDK releases > > > > This is possible solution. It will lower the TCK burden to aprox > > 3/5 with lost of most widely used JDKs from repositories. > > I'm open to this proposal. But the removal will hurt and way back > > will be much harder then swithing static builds back to dynamic. > > > > > > You could even drop java-latest-openjdk from all branches but > > > rawhide, > > > since it's only needed for bootstrapping there. > > > > Taht is very valid point. Cost is it will force huge number of > > uses to download 3rd party latest STS jdk. it is where all new > > features live. > > Are there really that many Fedora users who need and install > java-latest-openjdk? Do you have estimates of how many people do > this, > compared to how many users just use the default system JDK? > > > > This should pretty dramatically reduce the size of your test > > > matrix. > > > Applying the current numbers: > > > > > > - Fedora Rawhide: java-17-openjdk (default), java-latest-openjdk > > > - Fedora 36: java-17-openjdk (default), java-11-openjdk (in case > > > the > > > default needs to be switched back), java-latest-openjdk > > > - Fedora 35: java-11-openjdk, java-latest-openjdk > > > > > > > it is a bit less then I wrote, - about 3/5 of current load but do > > yoreally wish to cut all those jdks from fedora? > > To me the static repacked build sill somehow seems as smaller evil > > then drop practically all interesting jdks out of distro. > > Yeah, why not? I'm asking whether it's actually worth your time to > keep them around. Given that there's probably limited userbase and > the > resources that are needed to keep them around, this is a valid > question, I think. Speaking for myself, I'd rather have the default, > integrated, system JDK be of the high quality it has been in Fedora, > rather than having many different, less-integrated versions around. > > > So here I need to rephrase your question - is it based on your's > > thinking or on what fedora users really needs? > > I think the oposite - they need all jdks which are around. Proeprly > > integrated with system. How they are built .. they do not care. > > If update to neewer Fedora wil lmake some older JDK disapear, or if > > need of new one will force me to update Fedora when I don't want or > > cant. I call it much worse user expereince > > Well, isn't that the point? > > BTW, I noticed that despite java-17-openjdk being the default system > JDK on Fedora 36, it wasn't installed instead of java-11-openjdk when > I upgraded from Fedora 35. That sounds like the change proposal > wasn't > fully implemented, either? Wouldn't the upgrade approach leave the installed JDK as default? Just asking since I have the default installed on F36 (17) and I also have the latest(18) which I didn't explicitly install. Just asking Stephen > > Fabio > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
