On 5/24/22 22:02, Fabio Valentini wrote:
On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 5:03 PM Jiri Vanek <jvanek@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I replied it already in that thread, but happy to repeat:
It will help, but less then it seems so.
Now we can drop 8. Soem legacy applciations will be unhappy, as EOL of jdk8 is in some 4 years, so fedora will suffer a bit. But it will be nice 12 TCK runs down.
but we can not droop 11, as it is system jdk in f35
Similarly, we couldn't introduce fresh jdk17 directly to f36 as system JDK. It needs it time to be tuned before being proposed as system jdk.
And we can not drop java-latest-openjdk, becasue it is necessary to boot next system JDK.
Yes, in 8 months, we would be able to drop 11. And live for 1 year only on latest and 17. Which is putting load for one year to 1/2. But the cost of not having 11 (and 8) will be felt by fedora users more, then having static jdk from repos.
Unluckily, with new future system jdk, we will need to boostrap it by latest, keep it as secondary jdk at least for one , better two, fedora cycles, so again we will be in 3 jdks x 3 systems.
Sure, we do not need to backport newest future system jdk to older fedoras, but usually the users want us to do so. tbh, I do not have strong preference on it. it is like 51 for backport, and 49 for not. Even with knwoledge of TCK burden.
Is this based on user requests, or is this only what you *think* users
I'm not sure what you mean - from above - what is based on mine/wider thinking
Generally waht I wrote here it is based on judgmeent of about 10 people around OpenJDK pacages in Fedora.
The equations above are based on realistic view and experience. Do you yo find some misscalcualtion above?
I really appreciate you opinions, and would be happyt answer more precisely.
of OpenJDK on Fedora need?
Speaking for myself, I have never used anything other than the default
"system JDK" for running Java applications on Fedora.
Are you really sure? Many applications runtime requiter non system jdk, so they pull it in and use, and maybe you have not even noticed.
Many develoeprs ahve installe dmany JDKS (in my case all from repos, unless I need to compile jimage) and the switch as needed.
What would you think about the following scenario:
- Fedora X defaults to new OpenJDK LTS N
- Fedora X keeps OpenJDK LTS N-1 so it's possible to revert the change
- Fedora X+1 drops OpenJDK N-1, since the newer OpenJDK N was already
the default for one release
- do not backport OpenJDK n to Fedora X-1 and X-2
- keep java-latest-openjdk, as you seen to need this for bootstrapping
new OpenJDK releases
This is possible solution. It will lower the TCK burden to aprox 3/5 with lost of most widely used JDKs from repositories.
I'm open to this proposal. But the removal will hurt and way back will be much harder then swithing static builds back to dynamic.
You could even drop java-latest-openjdk from all branches but rawhide,
since it's only needed for bootstrapping there.
Taht is very valid point. Cost is it will force huge number of uses to download 3rd party latest STS jdk. it is where all new features live.
This should pretty dramatically reduce the size of your test matrix.
Applying the current numbers:
- Fedora Rawhide: java-17-openjdk (default), java-latest-openjdk
- Fedora 36: java-17-openjdk (default), java-11-openjdk (in case the
default needs to be switched back), java-latest-openjdk
- Fedora 35: java-11-openjdk, java-latest-openjdk
it is a bit less then I wrote, - about 3/5 of current load but do yoreally wish to cut all those jdks from fedora?
To me the static repacked build sill somehow seems as smaller evil then drop practically all interesting jdks out of distro.
So here I need to rephrase your question - is it based on your's thinking or on what fedora users really needs?
I think the oposite - they need all jdks which are around. Proeprly integrated with system. How they are built .. they do not care.
If update to neewer Fedora wil lmake some older JDK disapear, or if need of new one will force me to update Fedora when I don't want or cant. I call it much worse user expereince
With much more stress about possible integration issues and with - imo(!) - considerable negative imapct to fedora.
Would this reduced set of supported OpenJDK versions, but keeping the
"latest" version, address this "considerable negative impact"?
Of course it will. But afaik the imapct is really mch worse then it seems.
Thanx a lot!
J.
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--
Jiri Vanek Mgr.
Principal QA Software Engineer
Red Hat Inc.
+420 775 39 01 09
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