On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 08:45, Peter Boy <pboy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > Am 27.09.2021 um 12:30 schrieb Fabio Valentini <decathorpe@xxxxxxxxx>: > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:19 PM Peter Boy <pboy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> Am 27.09.2021 um 11:13 schrieb Pierre-Yves Chibon <pingou@xxxxxxxxxxxx>: > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:57:12AM +0200, Peter Boy wrote: > >>>> > >>> > >>>> What do you want to gain from it? What is the goal to be? > >>> > >>> I believe the original email from Fabio answers both of these questions. > >> > >> I don’t find a plan or a goal. Please, provide me with a hint. > > > > All I wanted to say is that the current state is disingenuous at best, > > and misleading at first. > > Unfortunately yes, indeed. > > > By having @java-maint-sig as one of the admins of a package (and for > > most of them, also the default bugzilla assignee), while that group > > doesn't really function any longer, a false expectation of "there's a > > whole group of people maintaining this package", while the reality is > > closer to "zero or maybe one person might be looking at this package > > once a year". > > I think you characterize the situation very pessimistically. Obviously the constructions work to a certain extent. For example, we have 3 different versions of the JDK available in parallel, which also receive regular updates. We have important applications as tomcat. So we have something to build on. > Personally I think I found the characterization as being optimistic to almost realistic. There have been 3 to 5 reboots since 2008 each time with smaller groups of people. The issue is that Java is not a 'hot-new-thing' language that gets all the programmers running to the field. It is now seen as the same as Pascal/COBOL was in the 1990's.. that thing you learn in Freshman CS and then avoided unless you want to be an accounting-programmer (aka COBOL). There is nothing wrong with 'accounting-programmer' languages, and they are rarely just used for accounting, but it is a simple label people use on it. Java and languages like it are utility languages where after spending a week getting some report or other application to work, volunteering time to fix it for someone else is the last thing you want to do. [As several Java programmers have put it, you don't see plumbers volunteering to fix their neighbors pipes on weekends.] In the end, we have never been able to keep a pool of people interested in making Java work. We aren't the only ones as this problem occurs in Debian also (and it occurs in other languages like Ruby, JS, Python also). The people who want to volunteer time on the language are more likely to work in an area where others interested in the language are already there. Dealing with the vaguries of 40 different slightly different disk layouts, file permissions, and other tools from every distribution are grit in the shoe when you already have a 'working layout' and have people who speak your language and problems elsewhere. -- Stephen J Smoogen. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Flame wars in sci.astro.orion. I have seen SPAM filters overload because of Godwin's Law. All those moments will be lost in time... like posts on a BBS... time to shutdown -h now. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
