On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 10:08 PM Jóhann B. Guðmundsson <johannbg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On 2.7.2020 01:42, Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:23 PM Jóhann B. Guðmundsson <johannbg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> On 2.7.2020 01:06, Neal Gompa wrote: > >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:03 PM Jóhann B. Guðmundsson <johannbg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>>> On 1.7.2020 23:28, Neal Gompa wrote: > >>>>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 7:19 PM Björn Persson <Bjorn@rombobjörn.se> wrote: > >>>>>> Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: > >>>>>>> More user friendly than Grub ( has lilo like interface easier to change > >>>>>>> kernel entry, which goes nicely with the default editor change ) > >>>>>> This made me go "What?!". I used Lilo back in the day. Its user > >>>>>> interface was nothing but a prompt. You had to know what to type or > >>>>>> you'd be stuck. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Information for others like me who haven't seen Lilo since Grub came > >>>>>> along: Apparently development of Lilo continued until just five years > >>>>>> ago, and it grew a menu at some point. I guess that menu is the image > >>>>>> of user-friendliness that Johann was trying to invoke. > >>>>>> > >>>>> If I ever wanted to switch to another boot manager, I'd seriously like > >>>>> us to consider rEFInd: https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/ > >>>>> > >>>>> It's a very nice boot manager that looks good and doesn't suck. And > >>>>> purportedly is somewhat (if not fully) compatible with bls. > >>>>> > >>>>> sd-boot is too barebones and unfriendly to use, which makes sense > >>>>> since it was designed for non-interactive machines and not humans to > >>>>> use. > >>>> If there is this general feel that sd-boots configuration syntax is much > >>>> harder to read and the ability of not having to run additional command > >>>> once the file has been edited or the ability to be able to easily > >>>> maintain and manage multiple kernels or multiple operating systems due > >>>> those being a drop-in configuration text files, is considered being too > >>>> bare bone and *less* user-friendly than grub, then obviously me creating > >>>> a change proposal based on what Javier suggested along with other > >>>> cleanups to provide as best user experience as can be had with sd-boot > >>>> would be doing the distribution a great disservice would it not? > >>>> > >>> Oh, I don't care about the configuration syntax. That part would be > >>> the same across grub, refind, and sd-boot anyway. > >>> > >>> The user-interactive portion of sd-boot is *awful*. I know our GRUB > >>> looks ugly by default these days too, but it doesn't have to be, and > >>> most distros actually do make it look semi-decent. > >>> > >>> But alas, nobody cares about making that part look nice, because they > >>> hope people don't have to go there at all. But even Windows makes > >>> their boot manager not look ugly and relatively easy to navigate. And > >>> obviously Apple has done this forever with macOS. > >>> > >>> I honestly don't get why everyone is okay with butt-ugly and user-unfriendly UX. > >> Because the end user should never find himself in the boot manager to > >> begin with that's why no boot manager invest any time in being "pretty". > >> > >> The end user should find himself ending up in some form of shiny nice > >> user friendly rescue environment that helps him troubleshoot his problem > >> would you agree? > >> > > I would, except, we can't have that either, because nobody cares to > > make that either. > > Well if anything I would have expected atleast the Gnome community to > care deeply about that and build a a rescue environment consistent with > the overall Gnome experience. > This is the first time I'm hearing of GNOME being interested in preboot environments. > If we implement sd-boot in conjunction with the automatic boot > assessment we should be able to boot into such environment if the end > users boot fails but if people oppose sd-boot and see that as unusable > root of all evil or there is no interest within the Workstation WG and > or Gnome community ( Team Anaconda might be the right place for such > work? ) working on to provide such an rescue environment then obviously > nothing will change. > This could still work. But you really shouldn't accept butt-ugliness from any user-facing technology, even sd-boot. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
