Ben Rosser <rosser.bjr@xxxxxxxxx> writes: > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 9:36 AM Alex Scheel <ascheel@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Nicolas Mailhot via devel" <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> > To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> > Cc: "Nicolas Mailhot" <nicolas.mailhot@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> > Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 9:10:56 AM >> > Subject: Re: CPE Weekly: 2020-04-04 >> > >> > Le lundi 06 avril 2020 à 08:19 -0400, Alex Scheel a écrit : >> > > >> > > It'd be interesting to see if the FESCo election system could be >> > > repurposed to get a sense of all packagers' opinions, rather than >> > > make assumptions on how the community as a whole feels based on a few >> > > vocal members and their participation in the mailing lists. >> > >> > >> > Fedora guidelines ask Fedora packagers to subscribe to the devel list, >> > so it’s the official place to reach Fedora packagers. >> >> That's not the point I was making. >> >> Not everyone is inclined to loudly argue their positions on the mailing >> list. There have only been 12 unique participants to this thread and 57 >> to the other thread. >> >> That isn't indicative of the entire Fedora packager ecosystem. A lot of >> people are staying silent. >> >> >> I believe we need a different way to engage the rest of our packager >> base. > > I'm a packager who has been staying silent, but I generally strongly > agree with the points that Adam, Miro, Neal, and others have been > making As a $nobody that has stayed silent so far, I'd second this: essentially everything that I would have said, has already been said and ignored over and over and over again. Honestly, I don't see a point in repeating the same things again, just to get a polite "we're terribly sorry how we handled this, but no, we've decided to stick with gitlab" > with a few caveats: > > * I don't _really_ mind if we wind up using Gitlab over Pagure, but if > we do, I do feel pretty strongly that we should use Gitlab CE and > self-host it-- I don't think it would be right for Fedora to use an > externally hosted solution and I don't think we should use the > enterprise edition. I would very much prefer Pagure, mostly because it is one of the few true FLOSS git forges and we're currently it's biggest user. > > * I don't like how this process has been conducted, and I think that > official responses from CPE thus far haven't really made things > better-- if anything, the "we apologize, but this is the decision > we've made" attitude is making things worse. Exactly. All threads that have unraveled so far only make me increasingly frustrated and let me feel more and more powerless: if even established and respected community members cannot make the CPE reconsider and go back to the drawing board, then what on earth can I do? Why should I even try to make a positive impact in the Fedora community, if the CPE doesn't even consider our core values? What will be ditched next for a proprietary SaaS solution? (yes I am exaggerating on purpose with the last one) > > * I fear that, once again, we haven't adequately understood the > consequences of replacing pagure and some of the features that were > recently-- finally!-- added to it in order to replace missing pkgdb2 > functionality will again be lost for a long period of time... and > nothing I've read in any of these threads so far has helped reassure > me that's not the case. Your fear has been confirmed multiple times by Leigh Griffin: there is *no* plan or analysis yet how the currently required features of our pagure dist-git can be implemented in gitlab and how much that will cost (how that does not defeat the original purpose of this whole ordeal is beyond me). I honestly have nothing more to add to that, as imho the last paragraph already tells us how this thing will end :-( Dan
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