Re: Java Dev Group and Fedora Quality

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On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:11 PM Robbie Harwood <rharwood@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Java packaging being extremely difficult is not a Fedora-specific
> problem.  The modularity effects are, but the packaging has been
> known-hard for a very long time in many distros (and even outside a
> distro context, it's not fun to work with the Java package managers).

Distribution of java libraries and sometime applications is a problem
that the Java community has solved (arguably with mixed results and
not completely) with the use of maven, and most of the de-facto
standard solutions evolve around some use of maven for deployment and
shipping of the dependencies required to run and build end
applications.

Fedora, for some reason that may have been understandable 15 years ago
but that clearly show the sign of time and the drawbacks decided to go
through a different form of distribution and instead of embracing
maven as a native tool for java packages has wrapped everything around
RPM, because this was how the rest was distributed. Of course, this
made sense as I said, you want to have one way central way and one
tool with one familiar interface to build up your distribution and OS,
but in hindsight I can't help thinking that it would have been better
to teach RPM about maven instead, after all xmvn is just an hack to do
exactly that.

There are a few things that can be done to improve this situation
going forward, some of those ideas may include things like dropping
RPM packages completely, use flatpaks, create a properly audited
deployment channel similar to what maven central does but more
controlled and closed world, etc...

Yes, I can see how this sort of discussion would be interesting to
have during the devroom because it's definitely beyond just Fedora,
and I'm sure there will be also some discussion about that on the side
like always, but overall specific issues should be discussed where
they matter, so any issues specific to RPM packaging of Eclipse won't
really find its way in the Java DevRoom (but I know the Eclipse
developers would be happy to discuss some of those problems during/in
between their DevRoom:
https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/track/free_tools_and_editors/ if you
happen to be there).

> > and neither you can draw conclusions on the interests of the Red Hat
> > Java leadership based on the schedule alone.
>
> (For what it's worth, I'm not interested in doing that which is why I
> trimmed the email the way I did, though I know Nicolas was.)

Acknowledged.

Cheers,
Mario

-- 
Mario Torre
Associate Manager, Software Engineering
Red Hat GmbH <https://www.redhat.com>
9704 A60C B4BE A8B8 0F30  9205 5D7E 4952 3F65 7898
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