On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 25 August 2017 at 10:06, Neal Gompa <ngompa13@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Rex Dieter <rdieter@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> Neal Gompa wrote: >>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Matthew Miller >>>> <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 08:25:22AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: >>>>>> This is a stupid idea because it introduces "magic" into picking the >>>>>> type of thing installed. It also goes against how we typically do >>>>> >>>>> Neal, this idea is the idea of other Fedora contributors who have put a >>>>> lot of thought into it. Please refrain from childish language like >>>>> "stupid". I'm not saying that this is "offensive" or anything, but I >>>>> hope for a higher level of discourse in Fedora. There's no need for >>>>> insults. You have a technical argument; please stick to that. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I've already turned down my feelings about it several notches. But at >>>> least you noticed what I said by the words I chose. That's was the >>>> whole point. >>>> >>>> I'm going to be blunt about how I feel about it and present my >>>> technical argument. Being purely technical tends to lead to being >>>> ignored. You noticed because I didn't do that. >>> >>> I agree with Matthew on this one. You got noticed, yes, but for *very* much >>> the wrong reasons... which may backfire in the long run: your non- >>> inflamatory/technical feedback will indeed have higher risk of not being >>> considered seriously. >>> >> >> I'm extremely frustrated by how much half-baked-ness has been going on >> in the last couple of months. Schedule shrinkage, features getting >> cut, this modularity thing being implemented in a way that's looking > > I am going to say the following as a guide for other people in the future. > > If you had taken the time to explain this in the first place versus > calling it stupid, I would have paid attention. This clearly explains > why you are frustrated and what the problems you are seeing in details > which can be dealt with. The "stupid" may seem to be a great > distillation of all those problems but it also comes across too many > times as "I am scoring points on the elementary playground" so yes it > gets initial attention but people just want to punch you in the face > versus listen to what is making you so angry/upset. > > To be clearer. Your original email just made me upset at *you* and > pretty much shut me down from wanting to see it from your point of > view. Reading this has made me realize that many of my current > frustrations with how everything is and yours are the same and I can > agree with many of the points. Even to the following though I don't > know what DID is (Developers in Distress?) > DID == Dissociative Identity Disorder. Also known as multiple personality disorder (MPD). Though Developers in Distress works too. :) But here's the thing... Why are you listening to me now about this, as opposed to the many other times I brought it up when they were smaller and more manageable issues to be resolved early? Even Matt knew of several of the problems that wound up happening because *I told him* in person several months ago. I *detailed* exactly what services would break when we did this, and how many workflows would be busted. I've told other people that we don't have anything meaningful to replace these things, and that no one even *knows* what the heck PDC does (which somehow replaces this, maybe?), except maybe Adam Williamson. It's not like logging into the bloody thing gets you anything useful either. Why do I have to have to rip my hair out in frustration (and those who met me in person know that's a lot to rip out!) before someone sits up and pays attention? Why does everything have to go to hell first? It's very clear that there's no point in evaluating things and telling people what you're breaking before you break it, because no one cares. On the flip side, actually trying to be proactive about things goes nowhere too (c.f. Rust and releng). It feels like there's no point to even trying to work with these groups of people anymore, because they *don't care*. I don't know what you want from me anymore... And apparently there are others that feel the same, judging by some of the conversations I've had on various channels with folks. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
