On 07/15/2013 11:53 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: > On 07/15/2013 09:26 PM, Jonathan Masters wrote: >> On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:11, Miroslav Suchý <msuchy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> On 07/15/2013 10:44 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: >>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Syslog = >>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog >>>> >>>> Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering <lennart at poettering net>, Matthew >>>> Miller <mattdm at fedoraproject org> >>>> >>>> No longer install a traditional syslog service by default. (Specifically, >>>> remove rsyslog from the @core or @standard groups in comps.) >>>> >>>> The systemd journal will be the default logging solution. Rsyslog, Syslog-NG, >>>> and even traditional sysklogd will continue to cover use cases outside of the >>>> default. >>> My voice may be one of thousands, but I'm saying: I want to have traditional syslog service as default and have journal from systemd as option. >> I concur. I have systems that live in a heterogeneous environment and need traditional syslog. By making it optional, it will ultimately die, forcing journal as the only viable option in a Fedora environment. This is IMO not net beneficial for downstream use cases later on either. > > Has syslog-ng entirely died since rsyslogd has been the default? > > Anyway there really is no point in installing and running two loggers > on embed/server/desktop wasting ram, diskspace and cpu cycles *for everybody* There is, and it was pointed out already several times on this thread: because admins need text logs in /var/log/messages > instead of administrators simply adding rsyslog or syslog-ng manually > at install time or to their ks snippets. And this too was answered several times already. The machine in question may be already borked. Our support people will need to figure out - over the phone or email! - what has happened on client's installation, and having traditional grep/sed/awk recipes not working anymore because /var/log/messages is not there anymore is an extremely unwelcome discovery in an emergency. You guys aren't administrators who are dealing with these problems every day. You don't feel the pain you create for other people. > and quite frankly administrators that complain about journal have not > actually tried it and experienced the flexibility the journactl > gives them it truly is not as bad as some people are trying to > make it out to be. False argument. People (on this thread) aren't complaining about journactl being a bad thing. They are complaining about /var/log/messages disappearing. -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
