On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Denys Vlasenko <dvlasenk@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 07/15/2013 11:53 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: >> On 07/15/2013 09:26 PM, Jonathan Masters wrote: >>> On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:11, Miroslav Suchý <msuchy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>> On 07/15/2013 10:44 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: >>>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Syslog = >>>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog >>>>> >>>>> Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering <lennart at poettering net>, Matthew >>>>> Miller <mattdm at fedoraproject org> >>>>> >>>>> No longer install a traditional syslog service by default. (Specifically, >>>>> remove rsyslog from the @core or @standard groups in comps.) >>>>> >>>>> The systemd journal will be the default logging solution. Rsyslog, Syslog-NG, >>>>> and even traditional sysklogd will continue to cover use cases outside of the >>>>> default. >>>> My voice may be one of thousands, but I'm saying: I want to have traditional syslog service as default and have journal from systemd as option. >>> I concur. I have systems that live in a heterogeneous environment and need traditional syslog. By making it optional, it will ultimately die, forcing journal as the only viable option in a Fedora environment. This is IMO not net beneficial for downstream use cases later on either. >> >> Has syslog-ng entirely died since rsyslogd has been the default? >> >> Anyway there really is no point in installing and running two loggers >> on embed/server/desktop wasting ram, diskspace and cpu cycles *for everybody* > > There is, and it was pointed out already several times on this thread: > because admins need text logs in /var/log/messages No they don't. The admins needs logs to find out what happened. It does not matter which format they are stored in and where they are stored in. >> instead of administrators simply adding rsyslog or syslog-ng manually >> at install time or to their ks snippets. > > And this too was answered several times already. > The machine in question may be already borked. > Our support people will need to figure out - > over the phone or email! - what has happened on client's > installation, and having traditional grep/sed/awk > recipes not working anymore because /var/log/messages > is not there anymore is an extremely unwelcome discovery > in an emergency. You can use grep / sed / awk on the jounrnal output as well. -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
