Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

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On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Denys Vlasenko <dvlasenk@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 07/15/2013 11:53 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
>> On 07/15/2013 09:26 PM, Jonathan Masters wrote:
>>> On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:11, Miroslav Suchý <msuchy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/15/2013 10:44 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
>>>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Syslog =
>>>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog
>>>>>
>>>>> Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering <lennart at poettering net>, Matthew
>>>>> Miller <mattdm at fedoraproject org>
>>>>>
>>>>> No longer install a traditional syslog service by default. (Specifically,
>>>>> remove rsyslog from the @core or @standard groups in comps.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The systemd journal will be the default logging solution. Rsyslog, Syslog-NG,
>>>>> and even traditional sysklogd will continue to cover use cases outside of the
>>>>> default.
>>>> My voice may be one of thousands, but I'm saying: I want to have traditional syslog service as default and have journal from systemd as option.
>>> I concur. I have systems that live in a heterogeneous environment and need traditional syslog. By making it optional, it will ultimately die, forcing journal as the only viable option in a Fedora environment. This is IMO not net beneficial for downstream use cases later on either.
>>
>> Has syslog-ng entirely died since rsyslogd has been the default?
>>
>> Anyway there really is no point in installing and running two loggers
>> on embed/server/desktop wasting ram, diskspace and cpu cycles *for everybody*
>
> There is, and it was pointed out already several times on this thread:
> because admins need text logs in /var/log/messages

No they don't. The admins needs logs to find out what happened. It
does not matter which format they are stored in and where they are
stored in.

>> instead of administrators simply adding rsyslog or syslog-ng manually
>> at install time or to their ks snippets.
>
> And this too was answered several times already.
> The machine in question may be already borked.
> Our support people will need to figure out -
> over the phone or email! - what has happened on client's
> installation, and having traditional grep/sed/awk
> recipes not working anymore because /var/log/messages
> is not there anymore is an extremely unwelcome discovery
> in an emergency.

You can use grep / sed / awk on the jounrnal output as well.
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