On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Jon Ciesla <limburgher@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> On 05/31/2012 02:52 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> On 05/31/2012 02:17 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:57 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:48 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:34 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:19 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:10 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could be any of a thousand ways to implement this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it checks the BIOS to determine whether some SecureBoot flag is set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While it pains me to argue with someone on my side— you're incorrect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The compromised system would just intercept and emulate or patch out that test. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then what's missing here is a way for booted OS's to test themselves for integrity. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe some sort of cryptographic signature stored in the hardware? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <ducks> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -J >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> </sarcasm> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just not dictated by one monopoly. >>>>>>>>>>> Ideally, no. But you see the problem. I'm divided on the solution >>>>>>>>>>> myself, but I've yet to see one I feel better about. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -J >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This game of cat and mouse with the blackhats is not going to end until we have some type of read-only partitions where >>>>>>>>>> known good code resides. >>>>>>>>> We have that, ISO9660. Known good == known good to whom? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nah, can't be iso. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has to be HDD partitions whose ro/rw state is controlled by hardware. >>>>>>> Which brings us back to the issue of how the hardware knows what to >>>>>>> trust for that ro/rw state. >>>>>> The hardware is under control of the user. >>>>>> >>>>>> At some point the user has to know what they consider trusted. >>>>>> >>>>>> During installation from a known good installation source: DVD, network, whatever, the user enables the install to write >>>>>> on the partition by actively pressing a hardware button that allows the write. After the installation is finished the >>>>>> user switches it back to read-only through pressing the hardware button. >>>>>> >>>>>> The user now has a known good read-only installation to boot from. >>>>> Is there an implementation of this existing today for HDD? >>>> Not yet. But HDD technology is changing rapidly. Just look at hybrid drives, SSD. >>>> >>>> No reason they could not add this capability. >>> Right. But it's not there now, which is my point. >> >> Actually it seems the forensic firms have been doing this for a while: >> >> http://www.digitalintelligence.com/forensicwriteblockers.php >> >> Their interfaces toggle the write wire to the drive. > > But that's not currently available COTS hardware. > >> >>> >>>>> Because >>>>> otherwise with existing technology, AFAIK, that limits your media >>>>> choices for root fs medium to CD/DVD-R, Floppy, Zip/Jaz disc, or some >>>>> models of USB flash drive. >>>> Yes, all these would currently support what I'm suggesting. >>> Actually, if you're willing to flip a lot of switches, you could >>> probably make your / a raid5 of floppies, but the performance would be >>> suboptimal. >>> >>> -J >>> >> >> Ok, now you're just being silly. > > Absolutely. And to clarify, I was being silly to illustrate that what we're after cannot be practically done with currently available hardware. -J > -J > >> . >> >> -- >> devel mailing list >> devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > > > > -- > http://cecinestpasunefromage.wordpress.com/ > ------------------------------------------------ > in your fear, seek only peace > in your fear, seek only love > > -d. bowie -- http://cecinestpasunefromage.wordpress.com/ ------------------------------------------------ in your fear, seek only peace in your fear, seek only love -d. bowie -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
