On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 05/31/2012 02:52 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> On 05/31/2012 02:17 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:57 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:48 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:34 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:19 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 05/31/2012 01:10 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Gerry Reno <greno@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could be any of a thousand ways to implement this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe it checks the BIOS to determine whether some SecureBoot flag is set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> While it pains me to argue with someone on my side— you're incorrect. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The compromised system would just intercept and emulate or patch out that test. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then what's missing here is a way for booted OS's to test themselves for integrity. >>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe some sort of cryptographic signature stored in the hardware? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <ducks> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -J >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> </sarcasm> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just not dictated by one monopoly. >>>>>>>>>> Ideally, no. But you see the problem. I'm divided on the solution >>>>>>>>>> myself, but I've yet to see one I feel better about. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -J >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This game of cat and mouse with the blackhats is not going to end until we have some type of read-only partitions where >>>>>>>>> known good code resides. >>>>>>>> We have that, ISO9660. Known good == known good to whom? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nah, can't be iso. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Has to be HDD partitions whose ro/rw state is controlled by hardware. >>>>>> Which brings us back to the issue of how the hardware knows what to >>>>>> trust for that ro/rw state. >>>>> The hardware is under control of the user. >>>>> >>>>> At some point the user has to know what they consider trusted. >>>>> >>>>> During installation from a known good installation source: DVD, network, whatever, the user enables the install to write >>>>> on the partition by actively pressing a hardware button that allows the write. After the installation is finished the >>>>> user switches it back to read-only through pressing the hardware button. >>>>> >>>>> The user now has a known good read-only installation to boot from. >>>> Is there an implementation of this existing today for HDD? >>> Not yet. But HDD technology is changing rapidly. Just look at hybrid drives, SSD. >>> >>> No reason they could not add this capability. >> Right. But it's not there now, which is my point. > > Actually it seems the forensic firms have been doing this for a while: > > http://www.digitalintelligence.com/forensicwriteblockers.php > > Their interfaces toggle the write wire to the drive. But that's not currently available COTS hardware. > >> >>>> Because >>>> otherwise with existing technology, AFAIK, that limits your media >>>> choices for root fs medium to CD/DVD-R, Floppy, Zip/Jaz disc, or some >>>> models of USB flash drive. >>> Yes, all these would currently support what I'm suggesting. >> Actually, if you're willing to flip a lot of switches, you could >> probably make your / a raid5 of floppies, but the performance would be >> suboptimal. >> >> -J >> > > Ok, now you're just being silly. Absolutely. -J > . > > -- > devel mailing list > devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- http://cecinestpasunefromage.wordpress.com/ ------------------------------------------------ in your fear, seek only peace in your fear, seek only love -d. bowie -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
