On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 09:50:21AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On 09/12/2014 09:26 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 08:39:54AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > >> On 09/12/2014 08:27 AM, Donald Buchan wrote: > >>> I suspect that while the technical merits of removing LO from > >>> a default install have their place (ie. large image size, > >>> quicker downloads, less update server load, it can be easily > >>> discovered in and installed from the repos, there are popular > >>> alternatives like cloud suites and alternatives, etc. etc. > >>> etc.) it's a major set of packages, *for me*, and I suspect for > >>> a significant proportion of users, even if a minority (in which > >>> case I concede that that would be a further reason to consider > >>> its removal.) > >> > >> - From my perspective, the point of offering a Live Media instead > >> of a pure installer is so that people can run Fedora and do > >> something actually useful on it without having to clobber their > >> existing system at first. (The try-before-you-buy scenario) > >> > >> We really need to figure out (ideally through user testing), what > >> are the tasks that people would want to do before they install > >> Fedora to their local system. I'd strongly argue that the most > >> basic set of tasks would be: > >> > >> 1) Browse the internet 2) Check my email 3) Read/Write office > >> documents 4) Use instant messaging (Google Hangouts, Facebook > >> messenger) > >> > >> For Fedora contributors, I might also add 4) Connect to IRC > >> > >> > >>> Oh, here's one more technical reason to remove it, or at least > >>> modify how it's installed: Although I know that there is a > >>> common codebase to the various parts, what about installing LO > >>> piece-meal? I use Write and Calc all the time. I have used > >>> Impress in the past but in the past three or four years I've > >>> used it perhaps three times. I've never used Base, Draw, Math > >>> or Charts since starting to use OpenOffice.org in 2005. > >>> > >> > >> I just performed a little test. Removing Base, Draw, Math and > >> Charts from my installed machine saves a whopping 6.3MB. Even if > >> we try to account for a few different dependencies, the savings > >> are negligible. > >> > >> The vast majority of disk space is taken up by libreoffice-core > >> (241MB on its own) and its dependencies. > > > > The utility argument seems pretty strong to me. Also, I believe > > deltarpm is still enabled by default in installations, correct? > > That would tend to cut down on size of updates to download. > > > > Deltarpms help only for updates. No matter what, you need to download > the full package at least the first time. Of course, so the image is necessarily larger as a result. But I question whether the difference saved by eliminating LO would really impact people's ability to download. I'd expect someone who can't download a 1.2GB image wouldn't have their problem solved by only downloading a ~750-950MB image. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
