This kind of comment is not constructively adding to the dialogue. Let's stay focused on the specific issue under discussion. On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:53 PM Dale Raby <daleraby@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > So what is next? Do we have to change the colors of chess pieces to > pink and blue? I had a discussion recently with a "person of color" if > that is the correct term these days on the subject of "firing" Aunt > Jemima. He thought it was really kind of stupid. I think he is right. > > Surely there must be something that is more important than this childish > nonsense. > > On 6/23/2020 6:16 PM, Eric Gustavsson wrote: > > Obviously existing printed material cannot be changed. But newer > > editions of books can most certainly address these things if they so > > desire. > > > > Paul, Ben - there was an OSPO talk about inclusive terminology that > > was put up a couple of weeks ago that might be of some interest > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZuFeFuazwo > > > > Eric Gustavsson, RHCSA > > He/Him/His > > Software Engineer > > Red Hat > > IM: Telegram: @SpyTec > > E1FE 044A E0DE 127D CBCA E7C7 BD1B 8DF2 C5A1 5384 > > > > On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 at 01:11, John Paul Wohlschied <wohlschied@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> At this rate, we will be burning older technical books because the terminology is no longer "acceptable". > >> > >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 6:09 PM Gregory Bartholomew <gregory.lee.bartholomew@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>> I have no objection other than maybe the work it puts on the writer to > >>> learn the new terminology. Personally I don't typically think along those > >>> lines and I can see where it might be easy for someone to accidentally use > >>> a word out of habit and not even realize that it is one that has been > >>> flagged by the community as an offensive word. > >>> > >>> My only request is that the writers/editors not be expected to learn a long > >>> list of words to constantly be thinking about and watching out for. I would > >>> rather the list be loaded into the spelling autocorrect system somehow. > >>> > >>> My two cents, > >>> gb > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:55 PM Paul Frields <stickster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:23 PM Eric Gustavsson <egustavs@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Raising my opinion as well. As a Swedish person, I've always > >>>>> associated whitelists as a list of things you can see, since white is > >>>>> bright. > >>>>> Likewise for blacklists as something in the darkness that you cannot see. > >>>>> > >>>> I'm sure you can understand, though, why our associations in this case are > >>>> less relevant. > >>>> > >>>> I personally would use the same connotation as the project I'm writing > >>>>> about. > >>>>> If I'm writing about Redis I will write about master-replica. > >>>>> Likewise if I'm writing about something that uses whitelist/blacklist > >>>>> wording, I will use that as well. > >>>>> > >>>>> Using a different connotation than is documented is just confusing. > >>>>> > >>>> While I agree upstream references may make this difficult there are still > >>>> actions we can take, such as a note to the effect of the objectionable > >>>> language, and (if it exists) a link to upstream discussion. We can also > >>>> work around with a clear note at the top of an article explaining the > >>>> language we will use. > >>>> > >>>> I wouldn't edit the Fedora Magazine article either, even though > >>>>> allowlist/denylist 100% makes more sense in firewalld the article > >>>>> talks about it as a problem and proposes a solution - their > >>>>> firewalld-blacklist package. > >>>>> If it was to be edited across the article to mention denylist instead, > >>>>> and in the end link to a firewalld-blacklist package they created, one > >>>>> would be confused as to why it was coded with one word and released > >>>>> with a different one. > >>>>> > >>>> This seems a weak problem. After all we have many -devel packages that > >>>> contain mainly headers. > >>>> > >>>> I would vote for discouraging master/slave, and blacklist/whitelist as > >>>>> long as it makes sense and doesn't take away any meaning that needs to > >>>>> be explained. > >>>>> > >>>>> Having a style guide sounds great, I'm presuming something like > >>>>> codespell can correct custom words as well like RedHat, > >>>>> NetworkManager, fedora, etc. > >>>>> > >>>> I do agree we avoid creating confusion, but this can be done in many ways > >>>> that avoid simply falling back to status quo. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Paul > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>> Fedora Code of Conduct: > >>>> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > >>>> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > >>>> List Archives: > >>>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >>> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > >>> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > >>> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > _______________________________________________ > > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > _______________________________________________ > Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ Fedora Magazine mailing list -- magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to magazine-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/magazine@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
