On Sun, 2021-05-09 at 10:38 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 10:11 AM Sérgio Basto <sergio@xxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2021-05-09 at 09:28 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:19 AM Patrick Boutilier < > > > boutilpj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/9/21 10:10 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > > On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:19 AM Patrick Boutilier < > > > > > boutilpj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/9/21 9:08 AM, Patrick Boutilier wrote: > > > > > > > On 5/6/21 4:06 PM, Tomáš Trnka wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After updating to F34, I was unpleasantly surprised by > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > new Plasma > > > > > > > > update > > > > > > > > notifier (plasma-discover-notifier). Even though the > > > > > > > > previous > > > > > > > > plasma-pk-updates > > > > > > > > thing had its quirks and Apper also wasn't the most > > > > > > > > featureful of package > > > > > > > > managers, I still ran into a handful of issues with > > > > > > > > Discover > > > > > > > > that make it > > > > > > > > pretty much useless for me: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > – There seems to be no way to select which updates to > > > > > > > > install. All I > > > > > > > > can see > > > > > > > > is a list of available updates with a button to install > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > of them, > > > > > > > > but no > > > > > > > > way to pick and choose a subset. (Yes, I could use > > > > > > > > commandline DNF with a > > > > > > > > whole bunch of "-x" arguments to get the job done, but > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > point of a > > > > > > > > GUI is > > > > > > > > to make things more user friendly, isn't it?) > > > > > > > > – I can't seem to find the description of individual > > > > > > > > package > > > > > > > > updates > > > > > > > > (the short > > > > > > > > changelog that plasma-pk-updates shows when you click a > > > > > > > > particular > > > > > > > > package, > > > > > > > > together with Bugzilla or Bodhi links). Again, getting > > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > any other > > > > > > > > way > > > > > > > > than through the GUI updater is a real hassle. > > > > > > > > – The tray notifier doesn't let me actually do anything > > > > > > > > directly, I > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > wait for it to open a full Discover window and spend a > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > loading the > > > > > > > > updates, which is much more disruptive than the few > > > > > > > > seconds > > > > > > > > needed to > > > > > > > > trigger > > > > > > > > updating through plasma-pk-updates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even worse is that every single update requires a reboot. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > just took a > > > > > > > fully updated system and then downgraded vlc. Updated > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > Discover and > > > > > > > even though it only had to update vlc-core-3.0.13- > > > > > > > 1.fc34.x86_64 > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > vlc-3.0.13-1.fc34.x86_64 it still required a reboot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like this will be an option in 5.22 . > > > > > > https://invent.kde.org/plasma/discover/-/merge_requests/111 > > > > > > > > > > > > Although I am not sure how doing an online vlc update will > > > > > > cause > > > > > > an > > > > > > "unstable system". It wouldn't be so bad if there were not > > > > > > almost > > > > > > daily > > > > > > updates available. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We don't have a heuristic for differentiating what a "safe > > > > > update" > > > > > and > > > > > an "unsafe update" would be. In the VLC case, it would be > > > > > "safe" as > > > > > long as the phonon-vlc backend was not used for KDE Plasma > > > > > (we > > > > > don't > > > > > use it by default, but someone could swap it in from a third- > > > > > party > > > > > build). > > > > > > > > > > It can get fairly complicated, and it's always been a bad > > > > > idea to > > > > > update the desktop software while it's running from within > > > > > the > > > > > terminal of the said desktop, because you can lead to a > > > > > scenario > > > > > where > > > > > you've temporarily caused a broken state that would only be > > > > > fixed > > > > > by > > > > > rebooting anyway. For the majority of users, offline updates > > > > > for > > > > > packages is the correct behavior. > > > > > > > > > > That said, yes, Plasma 5.22 (coming in a month) will > > > > > introduce a > > > > > user-accessible option to turn it off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there any way for the packages themselves to "request" > > > > offline > > > > updates? I agree that updating plasma, kf5-*, etc.. live is not > > > > a > > > > good > > > > idea. But something like nano for instance shouldn't need to be > > > > updated > > > > offline. > > > > > > > > > > It is possible, but basically none of the PackageKit backends > > > tell > > > PackageKit this information, so the frontends are working blindly > > > to > > > try to do the right thing. I'm trying to figure out if I can > > > extend > > > the DNF backend to start offering that information. > > > > > > Since Fedora has updateinfo and we (Fedora KDE team) set the > > > value > > > correctly when we submit updates, it should be possible for me to > > > plumb this through. It looks like I'll need to extend libdnf's > > > API > > > first to do it, so that's going to take some time. > > > > Hello, > > Sorry I will ask a complete off-topic question. > > I had remove packageKit of my system because it didn’t work well > > and > > used a second database of rpms, today after reviewing the bugs > > opened > > about 10 years ago, I found this one [1] that took 5 years to close > > but > > they didn’t answer my question, the packagekit already uses the > > same > > base of dnf data? > > As far I'm concerned I would be happy if we drop packagekit > > dependencies. > > > > It doesn't use a second RPM database. It uses the same one as DNF. > Over the past couple of years, the PackageKit DNF backend has been > reworked to respect more global settings and behaviors. There's still > more work to do, but it's at least being worked on. > > If you don't like PackageKit based stuff, you're free to use > dnfdragora instead. It is not about not liking the PackageKit, I felt that the packagekit never worked well and nobody cares, for many years, so I give up on use it (around 2015). I started not having notifications of updates and I don't even dislike it, now I update when I remember to check it :D . Best regards, -- Sérgio M. 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