Re: Offering plasma-pk-updates as an alternative to Discover

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On 5/9/21 10:10 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:19 AM Patrick Boutilier <boutilpj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 5/9/21 9:08 AM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
On 5/6/21 4:06 PM, Tomáš Trnka wrote:
Hello everyone,

After updating to F34, I was unpleasantly surprised by the new Plasma
notifier (plasma-discover-notifier). Even though the previous
thing had its quirks and Apper also wasn't the most featureful of package
managers, I still ran into a handful of issues with Discover that make it
pretty much useless for me:

– There seems to be no way to select which updates to install. All I
can see
is a list of available updates with a button to install all of them,
but no
way to pick and choose a subset. (Yes, I could use commandline DNF with a
whole bunch of "-x" arguments to get the job done, but the point of a
GUI is
to make things more user friendly, isn't it?)
– I can't seem to find the description of individual package updates
(the short
changelog that plasma-pk-updates shows when you click a particular
together with Bugzilla or Bodhi links). Again, getting these any other
than through the GUI updater is a real hassle.
– The tray notifier doesn't let me actually do anything directly, I
have to
wait for it to open a full Discover window and spend a long while
loading the
updates, which is much more disruptive than the few seconds needed to
updating through plasma-pk-updates.

Even worse is that every single update requires a reboot. I just took a
fully updated system and then downgraded vlc. Updated with Discover and
even though it only had to update vlc-core-3.0.13-1.fc34.x86_64 and
vlc-3.0.13-1.fc34.x86_64 it still required a reboot.

Looks like this will be an option in 5.22 .

Although I am not sure how doing an online vlc update will cause an
"unstable system". It wouldn't be so bad if there were not almost daily
updates available.

We don't have a heuristic for differentiating what a "safe update" and
an "unsafe update" would be. In the VLC case, it would be "safe" as
long as the phonon-vlc backend was not used for KDE Plasma (we don't
use it by default, but someone could swap it in from a third-party

It can get fairly complicated, and it's always been a bad idea to
update the desktop software while it's running from within the
terminal of the said desktop, because you can lead to a scenario where
you've temporarily caused a broken state that would only be fixed by
rebooting anyway. For the majority of users, offline updates for
packages is the correct behavior.

That said, yes, Plasma 5.22 (coming in a month) will introduce a
user-accessible option to turn it off.

Is there any way for the packages themselves to "request" offline updates? I agree that updating plasma, kf5-*, etc.. live is not a good idea. But something like nano for instance shouldn't need to be updated offline.

fn:Patrick Boutilier
org:;Nova Scotia Department of Education
adr:;;2021 Brunswick Street;Halifax;NS;B3K 2Y5;Canada
title:WAN Communications Specialist

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