Re: Offering plasma-pk-updates as an alternative to Discover

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On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:19 AM Patrick Boutilier <boutilpj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 5/9/21 10:10 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:19 AM Patrick Boutilier <boutilpj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/9/21 9:08 AM, Patrick Boutilier wrote:
> >>> On 5/6/21 4:06 PM, Tomáš Trnka wrote:
> >>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> After updating to F34, I was unpleasantly surprised by the new Plasma
> >>>> update
> >>>> notifier (plasma-discover-notifier). Even though the previous
> >>>> plasma-pk-updates
> >>>> thing had its quirks and Apper also wasn't the most featureful of package
> >>>> managers, I still ran into a handful of issues with Discover that make it
> >>>> pretty much useless for me:
> >>>>
> >>>> – There seems to be no way to select which updates to install. All I
> >>>> can see
> >>>> is a list of available updates with a button to install all of them,
> >>>> but no
> >>>> way to pick and choose a subset. (Yes, I could use commandline DNF with a
> >>>> whole bunch of "-x" arguments to get the job done, but the point of a
> >>>> GUI is
> >>>> to make things more user friendly, isn't it?)
> >>>> – I can't seem to find the description of individual package updates
> >>>> (the short
> >>>> changelog that plasma-pk-updates shows when you click a particular
> >>>> package,
> >>>> together with Bugzilla or Bodhi links). Again, getting these any other
> >>>> way
> >>>> than through the GUI updater is a real hassle.
> >>>> – The tray notifier doesn't let me actually do anything directly, I
> >>>> have to
> >>>> wait for it to open a full Discover window and spend a long while
> >>>> loading the
> >>>> updates, which is much more disruptive than the few seconds needed to
> >>>> trigger
> >>>> updating through plasma-pk-updates.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Even worse is that every single update requires a reboot. I just took a
> >>> fully updated system and then downgraded vlc. Updated with Discover and
> >>> even though it only had to update vlc-core-3.0.13-1.fc34.x86_64 and
> >>> vlc-3.0.13-1.fc34.x86_64 it still required a reboot.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Looks like this will be an option in 5.22 .
> >>
> >>
> >> Although I am not sure how doing an online vlc update will cause an
> >> "unstable system". It wouldn't be so bad if there were not almost daily
> >> updates available.
> >>
> >
> > We don't have a heuristic for differentiating what a "safe update" and
> > an "unsafe update" would be. In the VLC case, it would be "safe" as
> > long as the phonon-vlc backend was not used for KDE Plasma (we don't
> > use it by default, but someone could swap it in from a third-party
> > build).
> >
> > It can get fairly complicated, and it's always been a bad idea to
> > update the desktop software while it's running from within the
> > terminal of the said desktop, because you can lead to a scenario where
> > you've temporarily caused a broken state that would only be fixed by
> > rebooting anyway. For the majority of users, offline updates for
> > packages is the correct behavior.
> >
> > That said, yes, Plasma 5.22 (coming in a month) will introduce a
> > user-accessible option to turn it off.
> >
> >
> Is there any way for the packages themselves to "request" offline
> updates? I agree that updating plasma, kf5-*, etc.. live is not a good
> idea. But something like nano for instance shouldn't need to be updated
> offline.

It is possible, but basically none of the PackageKit backends tell
PackageKit this information, so the frontends are working blindly to
try to do the right thing. I'm trying to figure out if I can extend
the DNF backend to start offering that information.

Since Fedora has updateinfo and we (Fedora KDE team) set the value
correctly when we submit updates, it should be possible for me to
plumb this through. It looks like I'll need to extend libdnf's API
first to do it, so that's going to take some time.

真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth!
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