On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 16:20 -0500, tedd wrote: > At 3:34 PM -0500 12/12/07, Robert Cummings wrote: > >On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 13:13 -0500, tedd wrote: > > > Just because we think, does not prove randomness, nor order, in > >> nature -- it only proves that we think about it. > > > >Actually, order is proven. The fact that I can re-arrange objects into > >an order proves it exists, the accuracy of the ordering may fall into > >question, but not that they are ordered. It's random that can't be > >proven. > > > >Cheers, > >Rob. > > No, just because you can "re-arrange objects" to your definition of > order does not mean they are ordered -- unless you are making one of > those "begging the question" arguments (i.e., "I ordered it, > therefore it's ordered"). Actually it does mean they're ordered. I re-arranged them from their previous order/disorder. As such I exerted control. Control facilitates order. The fact that I moved it from A to B means I controlled it, since I controlled it I ordered it. This is not begging the question. > Instead, I claim that you perceive order, when there is not, other > than in your mind, and that's the point. One might claim that if you > could order things, then they would remain ordered -- but nothing > remains stagnant. > > Furthermore, what you claim as ordered will not necessarily be "in > order" by another observer. As such, "order" is an abstract concept > of the mind, nothing else. Other observers aren't important since reality is what *I* observe. Additionally, the fact that I order something for any moment of time, however infinitely small, still means I ordered it. The fact that the order decays due to other influences just reinforces the fact that there are other rules at play that order the universe according to the execution of those rules... aka physics. This brings us back to the greater machine at play-- the universe, and how we are just machines within the large machine. We can order things, but the greater machine has final say since it is already running and we are within its influence. Cheers, Rob. -- ........................................................... SwarmBuy.com - http://www.swarmbuy.com Leveraging the buying power of the masses! ........................................................... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
