>I am not sure they ever did Ed. An engineer is just wired differently than most folks. I speak from experience. I am married to one. An engineer is what you need when you need something done to a tolerance of 10,000ths of an inch, but don't tell her you are only an eighth of an inch off when doing a home improvement project. Doesn't matter if the blade of the saw you cut with is 3/16ths of an inch, ITS OFF!!! >Give them a meter and tell them to find the density of X value on Y film, and they are in their element. Its numbers. Test how long you need to develop x to get y and they have no problem. Yet for most when you tell them to use that knowledge to go make a great photo, they wouldn't recognize one that was unique and different any quicker than a Democrat would vote for a major tax cut. It might happen, but surely not very often. ah so true, and these people stand as icons to this day as inspirations to both scientists and artists - people like DaVinci for who science and art were not in conflict. An artist is far more likely to use the TLAR school than an engineer. What does TLAR stand for ??? That Looks About Right Is that an acceptable standard? 'aww, near enough is good enough' ? Sounds like laziness to me :( <clipped> Rare is the person that can do both in balance. true, and those who cannot would benefit from listening to those with greater strengths in a different area, rather than attacking them - but that still seems the nature of the majority :/ k