> On Apr 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Are you claiming he is lying about his hat being off? No; I’m claiming that I do not recognize his hat as being removed when he speaks about IETF process. If this were something that wouldn’t have come from the IESG, yes. But this (and the other doc, FWIW), seem like end-runs around the fact that an IESG member is speaking based on privileged IESG discussions. > Or are you asking that we change the long standing practice of allowing our leadership to also participate as individuals in our work? They can, but **not as individuals in matters for which they are appointed**. > Are you saying that he should inform us of what the other IESG members said to him in informal conversation? (I sure hope not, but that seems to be what you are asking regarding why this isn't coming from the IESG.) No. > Or are you asserting or requesting something else that I am unable to understand from your emails? I think you have the idea; my point is that a “hat” is not removable by a Nomcom-appointee simply by declaration - notably in matters related to their appointment. They can wait until they step down or have another role. Until then, I consider them inextricably entangled with their appointment and believe others should too. Joe > On 4/10/2020 2:35 PM, Joseph Touch wrote: >> Hi, Joel, >>> On Apr 10, 2020, at 11:31 AM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> Joe, I do not follow your reasoning. >>> Barry is stating that he has talked to some of his fellow IESG members about the draft. He probably also talked to people that are not on the IESG. >>> He is also telling us that the IESG has not agreed to this or adopted it in any formal fashion. And that he is bringing it forward as a member of the community. >>> >>> Those seem to be factual statements. >> As is the fact that I reject his claim of “hat off”. >> I do not thing we should condone this sort of “under the radar” approach; if he's on the IESG, why isn’t this coming from the IESG? (The same goes for other docs similarly written by IESG members “as individuals”). >> Notably, these sort of docs have been either about IETF process (like this) or even specific to the area of an IESG member (as with Mirja’s on system ports). >> Joe
