On 29-Mar-19 03:30, Michael Richardson wrote: > Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> > We offer newcomer's training on Sunday, and the same presentation a > >> > couple of times the weeks before the IETF. Are there other things > > >> we could do? See https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/104/newcomers/ > > >> and > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/104/materials/slides-104-edu-sesse-newcomers-overview-for-ietf-104-00 > >> > >> Mostly, it not the newcomers that need help being nice to newcomers. > >> They need training on having appropriately thick skins. > > > Please read the 3rd paragraph at > > https://www.ietf.org/about/participate/get-started/starting/ If you > > think that summary (which I drafted some years ago) is wrong, somebody > > in the EMO directorate can presumably get it updated. > > This paragraph: > > } The IETF is normally very welcoming to newcomers, and tolerance is the > } rule. The technical level is quite high, so if you write something that turns > } out to be wrong, you may get some quite frank replies. Or sometimes you will > } get a reply from someone whose first language is not English, and they can be > } rude without intending it. (If someone is seriously offensive, the WG Chairs > } are supposed to deal with it.) Don't be discouraged; everybody started as a > } newcomer. > > Some examples might be worthwhile. True, but that particular text was intended to be concise enough that people would be likely to read it through. In a longer version, examples would certainly be good. The "lost in translation" problem is real, but it's not the whole story of course. > For example: "Je demande" in french is properly translated as "I ask", but > it could be translated literally as "I demand", which is significantly more > hostile. You have reason. (Tu a raison.) But looking at the above quote, I can see that the difference between "frank" and "rude" is very subjective. I think we all agree that if someone is factually or technically wrong in an engineering discussion, it's necessary to say so. But how to do so is a complicated question. Brian
