On 2018-09-27 20:25, Dave Cridland wrote: > On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 at 21:59, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > >> However, we'd better face an ugly truth, which is that if the >> composition of the IETF as a whole isn't diverse, the NomCom will >> not be able to do much with that guidance. So IMHO a serious approach >> to diversity has to start at the input (who participates in the IETF), >> not at the output (who is nominated for the leadership). >> >> > Not that I have many solutions, here - as as an English-first-language > white male I don't really have a good insight - but I think your final > conclusion is wrong. > > The diversity of the IETF as a whole will be very heavily influenced by the > perceived diversity of its leadership - or at least, I'd expect that. There are at least two aspects to that: 1) How do potential participants perceive things? 2) How do the managers of potential participants perceive things? > A way > to test that hypothesis would be to plot the number of female members of > the IESG and IAB versus the female participation and attendance. One could > also compare Working Groups' chairs with the diversity of their > participants. Obviously we must have people at the input in order to > produce them at the output, but I strongly suspect a very strong feedback > loop is in effect here. I'm not so sure. I think the male domination of high tech is a much broader issue and provides a background signal that is much stronger than the number of female members of the IAB+IESG. So while I'm sure there is such a feedback loop and I'm sure that the IETF should do what it can, the problem is much broader than we can fix alone. Do we even *know* the gender of all participants? We are diverse enough already that I can't tell just by looking at people's given names. > The best I can say as far as solutions go is that while I don't hold with > positive discrimination, as such, it is worth noting that "diverse" is a > feature worth balancing against others nonetheless. > > As for the question raised elsewhere about whether we pick leaders with WG > Chair experience, I'd posit that the qualities we want in the IESG, in > particular, are the combination of high technical expertise and management > ability. The technical expertise is probably best proven within the IETF, > but the management experience could come from anywhere. That's not to say > that WG Chair experience is useless - but I don't think every IESG member > needs journey through the same IETF "career" path. I agree. On the other hand, WG Chairs are known to a significant number of other participants, so NomCom can expect meaningful feedback about them. That's less likely for raw recruits. Brian
