> I find the defeatism quite depressing. If we know the reason the previous efforts have failed, all we need to do is to address them and try again. FWIW, I agree with this. We should not believe we can make all projects succeed. Or that without a deep understanding of a field we can succeed. Or that we can succeed without understanding and getting the support of the world around us. But the Internet is evolving, the users have real needs and when we know what to do we should do it - you can succeed even in difficult situations. And now back to your regularly scheduled RTCWeb discussion… (and I'm not claiming that I at least know what to do in the RTCWeb case.) Jari