Taking it a step further, as far as getting credit goes, being on the IESG is pretty much the same as not participating in the IETF at all. But it's a lot more work. No-one gets credit for reviewing; that's why academia leaves it to grad students. Chairs being authors, and thus taking a detailed technical position, can often be very bad for workgroup output. Lloyd Wood http://sat-net.com/L.Wood/ ________________________________________ From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stephen Farrell [stephen.farrell@xxxxxxxxx] Sent: 17 October 2013 23:08 To: Carsten Bormann; Barry Leiba Cc: IETF Discuss Subject: Re: Proper credit for work done -- on finding chairs (was CHANGE THE JOB) On 10/17/2013 10:59 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Oct 17, 2013, at 23:47, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > >> "If I'm a working group chair, I do more work, overall. And, in >> the end, I get no credit for it -- my name is not on any of the >> documents. And, significantly, my company gets no credit for it >> whatsoever, not even listed in the datatracker. > > This. > > (Fortunately for me, in the WGs I have chaired, I actually did > (co-)write some of the documents. But it often was an uphill battle > to get my name on them, because WG chairs are not supposed to do > that. Even when there are multiple chairs, who could very well watch > each other. Well, RFC 3095 had both chairs on the document... and 14 > more authors.) > > Other groups, such as IEEE, list the chairs of a group prominently > (as such); they are worse in identifying the authors though. Chairs, shepherds, wg secretaries etc etc. I don't think attribution in RFCs is a great way to do that unless its done as acks the authors decide themselves they want to include. And I also think chairs being authors is a bad plan for any controlversial wg. I do agree that some credit for chairs in particular would be a fine thing if we could figure a way to do it though. For example, I'd encourage authors to include acks as per the above, in particular for cases of 'difficult' wgs. Any other ideas? S. > > Grüße, Carsten > > >