Re: All these discussions about meeting venues

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On 9/13/2010 2:52 PM, Fred Baker wrote:
What I find irritating with these discussions

What I find irritating with these discussions is the tendency to get irritated.

The other thing that is irritating is the tendency to dismiss or attack serious efforts to make serious comments.

The nature of the IETF is that our openness guarantees a very poor signal to noise ratio. Folks who make silly postings are making silly postings. Silly to attack the IAOC. Silly to attack or dismiss people making serious criticisms. Silly to be simplistic, chauvinistic, ignorant, or the like. Silly to make sweeping assessments.

We each have a burden to filter out the noise. Silly postings need to be ignored, rather than used as a basis for dismissing or distracting discussion from legitimate concerns.

Maastricht suffered an impressive variety of problems. Worse, some of those problems have become a recurring pattern. As examples, we have had a significant number of venues in recent years that were distant from major transportation hubs and/or were distant from "local" resources such as the usual array of hotels, restaurants, markets and the like.


who are (apart from AMS and the IAD) volunteers like the rest of us and put a
fair bit of time and travel into getting things as close to "right" as they

Anyone attacking the intention or effort of the IAOC is being silly. Anyone making a serious criticism of specific problems is /not/ being silly. They might be right or they might be wrong, but they focusing on outcomes that can legitimately be viewed as problematic.


can get them. We don't, to my knowledge, have anyone of restrictive religious
persuasions such as muslims or orthodox jews in the team that does the site
visits; there are a number of women involved, however, so I would expect the
team to be aware of women's issues.

But, Fred, the problem really is with having such a varied population of attendees and then experimenting with new venues every time. This guarantees problems, because the varied population means that there is a complex set of requirements. No, all of the issues cannot be anticipated, nevermind resolved. However a resource-rich venue that is visited repeatedly means that the choices are much greater and that a learning curve can develop.


If we want to have these discussions on the IETF list, I would strongly
suggest that they be moderated for tone.

+1.

Does that include expressions of irritation...?


People need to find a way to discuss
an issue without making statements about a person or set of persons.

+1

d/

--

  Dave Crocker
  Brandenburg InternetWorking
  bbiw.net
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