Hi Olaf, What I'm saying is that this has been done wrong, and probably the only way to avoid it is to: 1) Not accepting a venue which is not "directly" connected (and CONFIRMED by the secretariat) by an international airport, served by at least 3 different alliances (example, OneWorld, Star, Skyteam). It will be acceptable a train or bus from the airport to the venue/hotels, let's say less than one hour trip, AND with no "line" changes. Or 2) If the venue don't met that requirement, then the secretariat should take the responsibility to double check that the different recommended transportation suggestions are valid and perform as announced by the provider (example, the railway company). Maastricht didn't met any of both choices. I don't think the responsibility of the IAOC/secretariat finish by providing the venue and hotels. It must be a GOOD venue. Otherwise we may choose as venue ANY city lost in a far corner of any country, right ? And that should include the most obvious info about how to reach the venue (especially if is not next to an international airport). If somebody take the risk of choosing an alternative path, of course, that's a different history. I don't agree either that the secretariat should not make a minimum supervision of the host provided info. I know it is impossible not being local to monitor all, but in a case where we don't have an international airport, the secretariat should make sure that the trains have the right information, definitively ! Regards, Jordi > From: Olaf Kolkman <olaf@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > Reply-To: <olaf@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:06:14 +0200 > To: <jordi.palet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Cc: <ietf@xxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: [78attendees] WARNING !!! Re: Maastricht to Brussels-Nat-Aero, > Sat 07:09 > > > On Aug 26, 2010, at 3:07 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm forwarding this message to the general IETF mailing list, because I >> think we need a good discussion on this and the confirmation from the >> secretariat/IAOC that this work will be done CORRECTLY NEXT TIME. >> >> The fact is that if we don't make sure that a venue has good connections >> then should not be candidate to be an IETF venue. >> >> I'm not referring to plane vs train. I'm fine with train if the information >> provided is accurate. Some times, for people in Europe, train can be more >> convenient than planes, but this is only true if the train system is >> reliable in general (of course, a strike, crash or anything like that is >> something that we can't predict/avoid). >> >> Maastricht proved that the information provided by the train web sites was >> totally FALSE. >> >> This is something that the secretariat/IAOC SHOULD verify before accepting a >> venue. >> >> I hope that we learn the lesson. > > > > Jordi, > > You are suggesting that the secretariat or the IAOC does research into the > correctness of information that is linked from the host site, correct? > > If so: The host site is _not_ the responsibility of the IAOC or the > secretariat, it is the responsibility of the host. And although I would agree > that there should be some expectation that the host does its best to provide > accurate venue information one cannot expect the host to actually _test_ > whether sites that (in their eyes) are supposed to give authoritative > information are actually correct. > > Suppose that this link was not provided by the host. > > You would probably have googled for "Maastricht Brussels Train"? That query > provides me with the mentioned site as first hit. Would you have complained > to google that the first hit for that query contained false information? > > But to the underlying point: I think the responsibility of the IAOC and > secretariat stops with providing accurate hotel and venue location > information. How to get from home to the venue is _your own_ responsibility by > which you might be aided through links provided by the hosts and hints and > tips from your colleagues on the various IETF lists. I would agree that it is > fair to expect that folk providing those hints and tips do so diligently but > that is not the responsibility of the IAOC or Secretariat. > > > On purely personal title, > > --Olaf > > > > ________________________________________________________ > > Olaf M. Kolkman NLnet Labs > Science Park 140, > http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/ 1098 XG Amsterdam > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf ********************************************** The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. 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